Suppose someone wants to say: "what am I ? stupid ?" And suppose that the cookie monster, forbids him to say: {jIQIp'a' ?}, and be done with it, so he *has* to find a way to translate the "what am I ?". How should he say it ? Should he say: {nuq jIH} ? Or should he say {'Iv jIH} ? I'm troubled by this, because the way I *feel* the klingon {QIpwI'}, is it being more of an {'Iv} rather than a {nuq}. But reading {'Iv jIH}, I would expect to read something like {(name of a person) jIH}, rather that {QIpwI' jIH}. I don't know.. Perhaps I'm (overly) influenced by greek/english on this.. ~ mayqel qunen'oS
I think your question is valid, in that it is not fully thought out and I think you want to know what ideas would bring you to think it through more thoroughly. What is {‘Iv jIH?} asking? It is really saying, “Given the set of beings capable of using language, identify which one I am.” It is not asking what TYPE of entity you are. It’s asking which unique entity you are. A name is an identifier. A role (my wife’s husband, my boss’s employee) is an identifier. A characteristic, like “stupid” is not an identifier. Remember that “to be” is expressed two DIFFERENT ways in Klingon. {jIH} has to do with identity. tlhIngan jIH. charghwI’ jIH. We don’t say, *QIp jIH* because the verb {QIp} already includes the verb “to be”. We just use the usual prefix {jI-} with descriptive verbs of being, like {QIp}. So, to answer {‘Iv jIH?} or {jIH ‘Iv?} we use the pronoun as the identity-related verb and the noun (a role or a name) to replace the question word. {tlhIngan jIH} or {charghwI’ jIH}. If the answer would be {jIQIp} or {jIQIpbe’}, then the question has to be {jIQIp’a’?} That’s just how the grammar works. In English, we have one “to be” verb for identity or to link a subject to an adjective. In Klingon, the adjective IS THE VERB. You don’t use both forms of the English “to be” in a single Klingon sentence, and you don’t confuse which kind of “to be” question you are asking in Klingon. Does this help? charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jan 8, 2020, at 9:22 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Suppose someone wants to say:
"what am I ? stupid ?"
And suppose that the cookie monster, forbids him to say: {jIQIp'a' ?}, and be done with it, so he *has* to find a way to translate the "what am I ?".
How should he say it ? Should he say: {nuq jIH} ? Or should he say {'Iv jIH} ?
I'm troubled by this, because the way I *feel* the klingon {QIpwI'}, is it being more of an {'Iv} rather than a {nuq}.
But reading {'Iv jIH}, I would expect to read something like {(name of a person) jIH}, rather that {QIpwI' jIH}.
I don't know.. Perhaps I'm (overly) influenced by greek/english on this..
~ mayqel qunen'oS _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 1/8/2020 9:55 AM, Will Martin wrote:
In English, we have one “to be” verb for identity or to link a subject to an adjective. In Klingon, the adjective IS THE VERB. You don’t use both forms of the English “to be” in a single Klingon sentence, and you don’t confuse which kind of “to be” question you are asking in Klingon.
I agree, and I was going to post something similar. The problem with this question is it is being supposed that /What am I? Stupid?/ can be translated literally and still mean the same thing in Klingon. In English, you can answer /I am stupid/ to the question /What am I?/ In Klingon, *jIQIp* is not an answer to the question *nuq jIH* or even *'Iv jIH.* *jIQIp* is answering a question more like *chay' vIDellu'* or *nuq vIta'.* It simply would never occur to a Klingon to ask *nuq jIH* and to get an answer *jIQIp.* You're asking for a noun and getting a verb. Having a quality in Klingon is an action. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I think you’re being too literal with the English. Try using an expletive, such as {chay’?}: (TKD 6.4): The question word {chay'} "how?" may be used as a one-word sentence meaning “How did this happen? What happened? What the--?” chay’! jIQIp’a’? What the ---! Am I stupid? Use other expletives depending on how angry you are. E.g. ghay’cha’! jIQIp ‘e’ DaQub’a’? @#$%! Do you think I’m stupid? -- Voragh __________________________________________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> On Behalf Of mayqel qunen'oS Suppose someone wants to say: "what am I ? stupid ?" And suppose that the cookie monster, forbids him to say: {jIQIp'a' ?}, and be done with it, so he *has* to find a way to translate the "what am I ?". How should he say it ? Should he say: {nuq jIH} ? Or should he say {'Iv jIH} ? I'm troubled by this, because the way I *feel* the klingon {QIpwI'}, is it being more of an {'Iv} rather than a {nuq}. But reading {'Iv jIH}, I would expect to read something like {(name of a person) jIH}, rather that {QIpwI' jIH}. I don't know.. Perhaps I'm (overly) influenced by greek/english on this..
I want to express my appreciation for what I think is an exceptionally fine thread; a tiny gem. The question was well stated and reasonable, and useful to a broader audience of those learning the language or exploring its features, and the replies were each insightful and addressed important subtopics meaningfully related to the question. Multiple people contributed to a more fully rounded answer. All this, with no conflict of ego or authority, and without much in the way of redundancy. majqa’! THIS is the kind of thread that got me interested in the KLI in the first place: Individuals gathered to form a greater whole, accomplishing a mission more comprehensively than any of us would have, on our own. Satlho’. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jan 8, 2020, at 9:22 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Suppose someone wants to say:
"what am I ? stupid ?"
And suppose that the cookie monster, forbids him to say: {jIQIp'a' ?}, and be done with it, so he *has* to find a way to translate the "what am I ?".
How should he say it ? Should he say: {nuq jIH} ? Or should he say {'Iv jIH} ?
I'm troubled by this, because the way I *feel* the klingon {QIpwI'}, is it being more of an {'Iv} rather than a {nuq}.
But reading {'Iv jIH}, I would expect to read something like {(name of a person) jIH}, rather that {QIpwI' jIH}.
I don't know.. Perhaps I'm (overly) influenced by greek/english on this..
~ mayqel qunen'oS _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
-
mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel -
Will Martin