While {latlh je} might not function with verbs, you can work around that by something like: jIqettaHvIS, jIvumtaHvIS, jISeDtaHvIS, jIHaDtaHvIS, qoj latlh Qu’ vItoy'taHvIS, jIDoy'choH. Basically, all the activities you mention serve some kind of mission, and the implied other activities would also serve some kind of mission. Other lists of verbs might involve methods, rather than missions and could use {qoj latlh mIw vIlo’taHvIS}. Generally, consider what sets the verbs apart from one another and what binds them and find a noun that binds them or use a negated sentence that sets them apart, like: QongtaHvIS be’nalwI’, jIlaD, jIghItlh, jIba’, qoj chuSbe’bogh Qu’ vItoy' I prefer {qoj} to {je} because we’re really talking about ANY of these activities, not ALL of these activities. Similarly, consider {joq} for nouns for the same reason. I’d use {je} if I intended to do them all simultaneously or sequentially until the list were complete. charghwI’ ‘utlh (ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)

On Jun 28, 2021, at 9:17 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:

On 6/28/2021 7:51 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:

...

If someone asked me to describe my understanding of the english "et cetera/etc", I'd write the following two sentences:

"I like cats, dogs, rabbits, squirrels, etc" "Whenever I walk, run, travel, do my homework, etc, I listen to music"

In the first sentence, the "et cetera" is used in reference to nouns, while on the second in reference to verbs.

However, here: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/etc <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/etc>, I read:

----------

etc. abbreviation

and others; and so forth; and so on (used to indicate that more of the same sort or class might have been mentioned, but for brevity have been omitted): You can leave your coats, umbrellas, etc., at the door.

----------

So, I don't know whether my understanding of the english "etc" was correct, since I believed that it *could* be used too, in reference to verbs, while here seemingly/apparently it says that it is used after a string/sequence of nouns. Yes, you can use etc. with a list of verbs or any other part of speech, provided the entire list is just one type (no mixing of nouns and verbs, for instance).

...

But the real matter is what's the case with the klingon {latlh je}; is it to be used only with reference to nouns, or can it be used in reference to verbs too?

If I write the following then it's obviously correct:

tlhInganpu', romuluSnganpu', vulqanganpu', latlh je vIpar. I dislike klingons, romulans, vulcans, etc.

But can I write the following too?

jIqettaHvIS, jIvumtaHvIS, jISeDtaHvIS, jIHaDtaHvIS, latlh je, jIDoy'choH. While I run, work, drive, study, etc, I become tired.

I know that the klingon {latlh je} is essentially "and others", since the {latlh} is a noun (so one would expect it to being used only in reference to nouns..), but I'm wondering whether the {latlh je} can be considered a "set phrase" something like the {tu'lu'} which we never write as {lutu'lu'}. No data for an answer. I would expect it to only work with nouns, since it's got a je with it, but that's not any kind of proof.

-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

charghwI':

While {latlh je} might not function with verbs, you can work around that by something like: jIqettaHvIS, jIvumtaHvIS, jISeDtaHvIS, jIHaDtaHvIS, qoj latlh Qu’ vItoy'taHvIS, jIDoy'choH. QongtaHvIS be’nalwI’, jIlaD, jIghItlh, jIba’, qoj chuSbe’bogh Qu’ vItoy'

I really, really, *really* like these ideas! Thanks for sharing. De'vID:

I think, in theory, if it's a list of people, one is supposed to use "et al." rather than "etc.", but I don't know anyone who does this outside of an academic setting.

Perhaps, in such cases, one could modify the klingon {latlh je} to {latlhpu' je} in order to express the "et al". ~ Dana'an