On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:16 AM mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:

Recently, it occurred to me that we usually use (or that at least I use..) the epithets on their own. For example {petaQ ghaH}, {petaQvam yIbuSHa'}, {ghe''or jaHjaj yIntaghvam}, etc.

But could we use an epithet as the first noun in a noun-noun construction, in the same way that we use the {baS} in {baS 'In} ? Could we say for example {petaQ 'orwI'vam} for "this petaQ pilot" ? Or is it that saying {petaQ 'orwI'vam} would actually mean "this petaQ person pilot", in the case where the {petaQ} word "includes" the concept of the "person" ?

The epithets were originally listed as *chuvmey* and not as nouns. However, here are a handful of stanzas from the paq'batlh where *petaQ* is clearly used as a noun -- taking noun suffixes, and being used in a sentence as a subject or object, like a noun.

*jach veqlargh jatlh* * muqaD vay' 'ej ghe'tor 'el porgh* * nuqDaq ghaH petaQ'e'*

*He screamed: “Where is the p'takh* * Who dares to enter Gre'thor* * Within a body?!*

(PB, p. 106-107) *petaQvam vIqopbej*

* QIt ghaHvaD yIn Hegh je vIghojmoH* * 'ej 'oy' SIQ ghaH*

*I will bring this p'takh to justice* * And teach him life and death,* * The slow and painful way!*

(PB, p. 108-109) *nItlhejbogh petaQmey*

* tInuD chaHvaD* * nIb yan wIjwI' jan je*

*Look at these p'takhs at your side,* * They don’t know how to distinguish* * A sword from a plough!*

(PB, p. 142-143) *petaQ'a' SoH*

* bIlay'DI' qaHarbe'* * quv HIja'chuqQo*'

*You dirty p'takh,* * Your word means nothing to me,* * Don’t speak to me of honor!*

(PB, q. 156-157) (Also, an interesting example for the "prefix trick with type-1 verb suffix" canon.) In a noun-noun construction, I imagine it would work just like any other noun. A *petaQ* *'orwI'vam* would be, in the most nonspecific sense, this pilot who has something to do with p'tahks. Perhaps the pilot is themselves a p'takh, or maybe their passengers are exclusively p'tahks, or perhaps the aircraft they pilot is a p'tahk somehow. If you are currently angry at the pilot, it would be clear from context that you're probably calling them a pilot who is also a p'tahk. You could also phrase or interpret it as an appositive phrase instead*:* "The p'takh, this pilot, did such-and-such..." Also, *petaQ* wouldn't be an adjective. I think the grammatical term is "noun modifier" or the like. But I know what you meant. I think it's probably fine. We might learn that Klingons would phrase it differently, but I think the point would still get across. (Precise grammar is not always at the front of your mind when you're really angry at someone...)