At the qepHom, Maltz explained some interesting new verb and its usage: The request asked: How does one differentiate between need to/must/have to and should/ought to in Klingon? There is a rather big difference between “I need to do something” (because otherwise something bad will happen) and “I should do something” (because it’s the honourable thing to do). For reference: It was printed in qepHom 2022 booklet, page 20. online in the wiki: http://klingon.wiki/En/Should -- begin quote -- For "should" or "ought," make use of tlheb "urge" as in: qagh vISop net tlheb "I should eat gagh." (It is urged that I eat gagh.) qagh DaSop 'e' vItlheb "You should eat gagh (in my opinion)." (I urge you to eat gagh.) qagh vISop 'e' vItlheb "I should eat gagh." (I know it's the right thing for me to do) (I urge me to eat gagh) Note that the object of tlheb is the thing (activity) being urged, not the person being urged. That is, you don't say something like qatlheb (presumably, "I urge you"). The construction is always S 'e'/net tlheb, where S is a sentence whose subject is the person being urged to do whatever the verb is referring to. For "need to" and so on, of course, use the suffix -nIS. LL: Can I say this with the following meaning? jISop 'e' Datlheb'a' "Should I eat?" (Do you think I should eat?) MO: Yes. LL: So I see a connection to the opinion of the second subject. net tlheb is a general statement, while 'e' tlheb X means that person X thinks that the subject of the sentence should do someting. Is that right? MO: Right. Almost always, the subject of tlheb is "I" or "you" (when it's not net tlheb), but a third-person subject is possible. -- end quote -- Later, during the qepHom 2022, Marc Okrand clarified: This is not used in the case of "I repaired the computer, it should work now". That's a different kind of "should". The usage of this expression implies the decision of the person who should do something. Therefore, it is also not used in a phrase like "it should rain". -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/AliceInWonderland
Of course this brings up the topic of how to say, “I fixed the computer. It should work now.” De’ vItI’ta’. DaH Qaplaw’ / DaH Qap ‘e' vIpIH / DaH Qapchu’ (depending on your confidence level). pItlh charghwI’ ‘utlh (ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)
On Nov 21, 2022, at 3:07 AM, Lieven L. Litaer via tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org> wrote:
At the qepHom, Maltz explained some interesting new verb and its usage:
The request asked: How does one differentiate between need to/must/have to and should/ought to in Klingon? There is a rather big difference between “I need to do something” (because otherwise something bad will happen) and “I should do something” (because it’s the honourable thing to do).
For reference: It was printed in qepHom 2022 booklet, page 20.
online in the wiki: http://klingon.wiki/En/Should
-- begin quote -- For "should" or "ought," make use of tlheb "urge" as in:
qagh vISop net tlheb "I should eat gagh." (It is urged that I eat gagh.)
qagh DaSop 'e' vItlheb "You should eat gagh (in my opinion)." (I urge you to eat gagh.)
qagh vISop 'e' vItlheb "I should eat gagh." (I know it's the right thing for me to do) (I urge me to eat gagh)
Note that the object of tlheb is the thing (activity) being urged, not the person being urged. That is, you don't say something like qatlheb (presumably, "I urge you"). The construction is always S 'e'/net tlheb, where S is a sentence whose subject is the person being urged to do whatever the verb is referring to.
For "need to" and so on, of course, use the suffix -nIS.
LL: Can I say this with the following meaning? jISop 'e' Datlheb'a' "Should I eat?" (Do you think I should eat?)
MO: Yes.
LL: So I see a connection to the opinion of the second subject. net tlheb is a general statement, while 'e' tlheb X means that person X thinks that the subject of the sentence should do someting. Is that right?
MO: Right. Almost always, the subject of tlheb is "I" or "you" (when it's not net tlheb), but a third-person subject is possible.
-- end quote --
Later, during the qepHom 2022, Marc Okrand clarified:
This is not used in the case of "I repaired the computer, it should work now". That's a different kind of "should". The usage of this expression implies the decision of the person who should do something. Therefore, it is also not used in a phrase like "it should rain".
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/AliceInWonderland _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 9:08 AM Lieven L. Litaer via tlhIngan-Hol < tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org> wrote:
Later, during the qepHom 2022, Marc Okrand clarified:
This is not used in the case of "I repaired the computer, it should work now". That's a different kind of "should". The usage of this expression implies the decision of the person who should do something. Therefore, it is also not used in a phrase like "it should rain".
There was a question on the KLI Discord about whether {tlheb} implies communication, or merely opinion? For example, does {qagh luSop 'e' vItlheb} "they should eat gagh (in my opinion)", "I urge them to eat gagh" (following the pattern of the given examples in translation) mean that I've actually communicated to the potential eaters what I think they should do, or does it merely state my opinion to the listener without implying communication to the potential eaters? Was this clarified? In the given examples, the listener is also the intended subject of the action, so it's ambiguous whether {tlheb} implies communication to the subject of the action or not. -- De'vID
participants (3)
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De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
Will Martin