Okay, this is very old, and I guess it has been discussed already. Anyway, I never noticed this before and was quite surprised to see it: KGT lists {nuH} as "possibility", and I think this must be an error. The main body of KGT explains that {nuH} can be used metaphorically for "possiblity", but the regular word for "possibility" is {DuH}. (KGT p. 109+110) What is the common treatment of this? Is there any information I'm missing? Does {nuH }really mean possiblity, or is only used metaphorically, like slang words are? In that case, the list should have had a remark like other slang words. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/NuH
On 5/27/2020 9:59 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
KGT lists {nuH} as "possibility", and I think this must be an error. The main body of KGT explains that {nuH} can be used metaphorically for "possiblity", but the regular word for "possibility" is {DuH}. (KGT p. 109+110)
What is the common treatment of this? Is there any information I'm missing? Does {nuH }really mean possiblity, or is only used metaphorically, like slang words are? In that case, the list should have had a remark like other slang words.
It's not slang, it's a metaphor. *nuH* means /possibility/ in the same way that *Soj* means /subject matter./ It's an actual meaning the word has picked up that can be used outside of slang contexts. The word literally means /weapon,/ but you can use it idiomatically to mean /possibility. /We're only told that it appears in the idiom *Hoch nuH qel*/consider every possibility,/ but the fact that it appears separately on the word list suggests that it can be used with this metaphorical sense wherever you like. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Am 27.05.2020 um 16:28 schrieb SuStel:
It's not slang, it's a metaphor.
Yes, I know. This was just an example, because all slang and regional words are marked as slang, so I thought that metaphorical words should also be labeled as such. So it's not really an error, but just an incompleteness of KGT. I just imagined a pure beginner who looks up the word and memorizes {nuH} as "possibility" and then is puzzled with a piece of text talking about weapons and wonders why they speak about possibilities. Or the other way, a beginner might be asking for a good possibility to do something and uses the word {nuH}, which might look strange. Even thought {nuH} is defined as "possibility" in the list, there still is the /regular/ word {DuH}, of which I think it should be preferred in usage wherever possible. And any external word list should label the metaphorical usage of {nuH}, in my opinion. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/NuH
On May 27, 2020, at 10:23, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Even thought {nuH} is defined as "possibility" in the list, there still is the /regular/ word {DuH}, of which I think it should be preferred in usage wherever possible.
I suspect that this particular metaphor, beyond being another example of Klingon fondness for bellicose metaphor in general, is also influenced in part by the near homophony of {nuH} and {NuH} in Qotmagh and other dialects which nasalize voiced stops. Consider also {chab chu'}. While it may seem odd for a non-Klingon speaker to encounter such a metaphor, it’s no stranger than a non-English speaker hearing an expression like “hit the road”. I think learners at all levels should try to familiarize themselves with common Klingon idioms and metaphors. For example, while it’s technically correct to say {cham chu'}, to me it seems much more idiomatically appropriate to say {chab chu'} in all but the most formal contexts.
And any external word list should label the metaphorical usage of {nuH}, in my opinion.
I completely agree.
On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 18:38, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
On May 27, 2020, at 10:23, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Even thought {nuH} is defined as "possibility" in the list, there still is the /regular/ word {DuH}, of which I think it should be preferred in usage wherever possible.
I suspect that this particular metaphor, beyond being another example of Klingon fondness for bellicose metaphor in general, is also influenced in part by the near homophony of {nuH} and {NuH} in Qotmagh and other dialects which nasalize voiced stops. Consider also {chab chu'}.
KGT p.110: <The use of {nuH} ("weapon") for {DuH} ("possibility") may have been influenced by the Krotmag dialect pronunciation of {DuH} as something very close to {nuH}.> -- De'vID
On 5/27/2020 11:22 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
I just imagined a pure beginner who looks up the word and memorizes {nuH} as "possibility" and then is puzzled with a piece of text talking about weapons and wonders why they speak about possibilities. Or the other way, a beginner might be asking for a good possibility to do something and uses the word {nuH}, which might look strange.
But the beginner /should/ be learning the word *nuH* as both /weapon/ and /possibility./ It means both to a Klingon. We don't worry about a beginner learning the word *jIH* and then wondering why everyone is talking about monitors all the time. It means both, and to learn the language is to learn when to use one or the other. Sometimes people do mix those two up. We correct them, and life goes on.
Even thought {nuH} is defined as "possibility" in the list, there still is the /regular/ word {DuH}, of which I think it should be preferred in usage wherever possible.
If *nuH* can indeed be used outside of the idiom *Hoch nuH qel,* then there is no reason to discourage a beginner from using the word *nuH* instead of *DuH.* It shouldn't look strange, because it's a correct word to use. The only person it will look strange to is the person who hasn't learned that the word *nuH* can be used to mean /possibility./ The only time it would matter is when a listener might actually not be able to distinguish whether a weapon or a possibility is intended.
And any external word list should label the metaphorical usage of {nuH}, in my opinion.
Possibly. But if the word can be used interchangeably with *DuH* to mean /possibility,/ then it doesn't actually matter whether it's a metaphor or not — it means /possibility./ Take, for example, the English word /hog./ It means "a hoofed mammal of the family Suidae, order Artiodactyla, comprising boars and swine." But it ALSO means "a selfish, gluttonous, or filthy person," and this latter definition obviously derives from the swine meaning. (Its first attestation as a verb in this sense is in the book /Huckleberry Finn/). You don't learn that /hog/ in the selfish, gluttonous, filthy sense is slang or only used in certain contexts; it's just a word you can use. It doesn't get any special note in a dictionary. Even though one is a metaphor of the other, you learn it as its own word that has multiple meanings. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (4)
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Daniel Dadap -
De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
SuStel