Re: [tlhIngan Hol] My list of 19 new words revisited
Thanks for the welcome back! Steven Boozer wrote:
1. For glasses we already have a word from ?TalkNow! Klingon? (TNK): {mIn QanwI' nguv} ?sunglasses? (i.e., ?dark eye protectors?) ? which implies {mIn QanwI'} for regular eyeglasses. If you really want to be specific, you could say {mIn QanwI? Dem} ?uncolored glasses? using the new verb {Dem} ?be clear, transparent, uncolored? from qepHom 2016.
OK, cool. I knew the word "mIn QanwI' nguv", but I didn't imagine it could be turned into a word for vision-correcting glasses.
2. For tank top, don?t forget {yIvbeH}:
(KGT 57f.): the traditional warrior's tunic ({yIvbeH}) was made of a material (what it was is now unknown) resistant to puncture, just to add a little protection. Accompanying sleeves ({tlhaymey}), originally not parts of the tunic itself, were generally made of animal pelts ({veDDIrmey}) ? (In modern usage, the word {yIvbeH} in most places means any shirt, with or without sleeves.) (KGT 29f.): In the Vospeg ({voSpegh}) region, on the other hand, {yIvbeH} refers only to a sleeveless shirt (thus retaining much of the word's original meaning, a sleeveless protective garment worn by warriors), {wep} means a shirt with sleeves, and any jacket or coat is a {cheSvel}, a word >that elsewhere refers to a specific style of coat associated with, not surprisingly, the Vospeg region.
Thanks for this information. I don't own a copy of _Klingon for the Galactic Traveler_. I didn't know what a yIvbeH *was* exactly.
3. For teenagers and adolescents ? as you know from KGT we have:
nen growth, maturation (n) nen be mature, be grown-up, be adult (v) nenchoH mature, grow up (v)
*{nenHa?} would be a good way to refer to someone immature, not grown-up; in other words, an adolescent or teenager. That being said, Okrand - or is it Maltz? - usually refers to them as ?younger Klingons?, ?younger people?, ?younger speakers?, ?the younger generation?, etc. E.g.
(KGT 138): the characteristic patterns of younger people's speech, if noticed and commented upon, are more likely to be judged sloppy or careless rather than wrong.
(KGT 141): Despite this debatable advantage, and despite the slow but ongoing spread of the practice among younger speakers, most Klingons still consider the ambiguous use of {yI-} an error.
So {tlhInganpu? Qan}, {nuv Qan}, {jatlhwI?pu? Qan}, {puq poH Qan}, etc.
Qan? The word for "to protect"? I can't seem to find information on how to translate comparatives when there is no stanfard. There are "law'" and "puS" for constructions like "pal Qup law' pIyta Qup puS" for "Paul is younger than Peter", but how would one say "younger generation"?
Aargh! You are right of course: It would be {tlhInganpu’ Qup }, {nuv Qup }, {jatlhwI’pu’ Qup }, {puq poH Qup }, etc. I have no idea why I was thinking of {Qan}. As for the comparative form “younger” in “younger generation” – I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s just an English idiom meaning, I guess, “(noticeably) younger than us”. I don’t see any real difference between complaining about “younger people” vs. “young people”. If you really mean children not teenagers, say {Qupqu’} “very young” or just {puqpu’} “children”. Hmm… I wonder if {puqpu’ qan} “old children” works for adolescents? Or maybe pre-teens? <g> -- Voragh From: Jesse Manoogian
3. For teenagers and adolescents ? as you know from KGT we have:
nen growth, maturation (n) nen be mature, be grown-up, be adult (v) nenchoH mature, grow up (v)
*{nenHa?} would be a good way to refer to someone immature, not grown-up; in other words, an adolescent or teenager. That being said, Okrand - or is it Maltz? - usually refers to them as ?younger Klingons?, ?younger people?, ?younger speakers?, ?the younger generation?, etc. E.g.
So {tlhInganpu’ Qan}, {nuv Qan}, {jatlhwI’pu’ Qan}, {puq poH Qan}, etc.
Qan? The word for "to protect"? I can't seem to find information on how to translate comparatives when there is no stanfard. There are "law'" and "puS" for constructions like "pal Qup law' pIyta Qup puS" for "Paul is younger than Peter", but how would one say "younger generation"?
Am 28.07.2017 um 15:40 schrieb Steven Boozer:
Hmm… I wonder if {puqpu’ qan} “old children” works for adolescents? Or maybe pre-teens? <g>
I think that {puq} is not related to age. Even with the age of sixty, one is still the {puq} of one's parents. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
Steven Boozer:
Hmm… I wonder if {puqpu’ qan} “old children” works for adolescents? Or maybe pre-teens? <g>
Lieven:
I think that {puq} is not related to age. Even with the age of sixty, one is still the {puq} of one's parents.
In theory, yes. Okrand/Maltz though seems to use {puq} invariably for juveniles. I couldn't find any examples referring unambiguously and non-pejoratively to an adult, let alone an elder. Do you know of any? (I haven't checked the paq'batlh.) The exception seems to be {puqloD} and {puqbe'} as used in names: e.g. {wo'rIv mogh puqloD} "Worf, son of Mogh" or {HuS 'atrom puqbe'} "Huss, daughter of A'trom". -- Voragh
Voragh:
Hmm… I wonder if {puqpu’ qan} “old children” works for adolescents? Or maybe pre-teens? <g>
Lieven:
I think that {puq} is not related to age. Even with the age of sixty, one is still the {puq} of one's parents.
Voragh:
In theory, yes. Okrand/Maltz though seems to use {puq} invariably for juveniles. I couldn't find any examples referring unambiguously and non- pejoratively to an adult, let alone an elder. Do you know of any? (I haven't checked the paq'batlh.)
I just looked at the paq'batlh and found two examples: SaqSubDaq pagh Qoylu' Qong SuvwI'pu' puqpu' rur Heghrup loSlI' In the Saq'sub all is quiet, Its warriors asleep, like children Waiting for death to come. (PB, Heghrup loSlI') quv tIghmey Sov Hoch tlhInganpu' [sic!] 'ej puqpu'chajvaD lutvam lujatlhqa' Every Klingon knows the way of honor, And teaches their children by this tale. (PB, bertlham)
The exception seems to be {puqloD} and {puqbe'} as used in names: e.g. {wo'rIv mogh puqloD} "Worf, son of Mogh" or {HuS 'atrom puqbe'} "Huss, daughter of A'trom".[]
Adult men (even Kahless) are called {puqloDwI'} several times in the paq'batlh, but never just {puqwI'}. {puqbe'} only occurs once: le'yo' lutmey jaja'pu'mo' qatlho' cha' puqloDpu'wI' puqbe'wI' je qa'ang vIneH [translation not available) (PB, qamchIyDaq 'uQ'a') -- Voragh
participants (3)
-
Jesse Manoogian -
Lieven -
Steven Boozer