some info about the title of Kahless the Unforgettable
Regarding the title of Kahless the Unforgettable, which was translated as {qeylIS lIjlaHbogh pagh} in the paq'batlh and {qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay'} in the SkyBox cards, Dr. Okrand had this to say: <Both are correct. The version in the *paq’batlh* is older. Traditionally, the phrase {lIjlaHbogh pagh} is applied to Kahless only, while the newer {lIjlaHbe’bogh vay’} may be applied to Kahless and other leaders/heroes as well. It would be a sign of extreme arrogance or disrespect to use the {…pagh} version for anyone other than Kahless.> -- De'vID
Am 10.10.2021 um 08:06 schrieb De'vID:
<Both are correct. The version in the /paq’batlh/ is older. Traditionally, the phrase {lIjlaHbogh pagh} is applied to Kahless only, while the newer {lIjlaHbe’bogh vay’} may be applied to Kahless and other leaders/heroes as well. It would be a sign of extreme arrogance or disrespect to use the {…pagh} version for anyone other than Kahless.>
I understand this a little bit that {pagh} means a very strict "really-really-nobody" and a combination with {[...]-be' vay'} is a looser way to say "not everyone". (mathematically identical, but I see a difference) -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/Kahless
I’d be curious as to how the Klingonist who goes by the name pagh interprets the difference.
On Oct 10, 2021, at 3:15 AM, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 10.10.2021 um 08:06 schrieb De'vID:
<Both are correct. The version in the /paq’batlh/ is older. Traditionally, the phrase {lIjlaHbogh pagh} is applied to Kahless only, while the newer {lIjlaHbe’bogh vay’} may be applied to Kahless and other leaders/heroes as well. It would be a sign of extreme arrogance or disrespect to use the {…pagh} version for anyone other than Kahless.>
I understand this a little bit that {pagh} means a very strict "really-really-nobody" and a combination with {[...]-be' vay'} is a looser way to say "not everyone".
(mathematically identical, but I see a difference)
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/Kahless _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Another good question would be how this all relates to saying "an unforgettable journey": {leng lIjlaHbogh pagh} or {leng lIjlaHbe'bogh vay'}. Personally, I'd choose {leng lIjlaHbogh pagh} for a truly unforgettable experience, and {leng lIjlaHbe'bogh vay'} for an unforgettable journey which isn't as awesome as the former. Of course, this is just my personal preference, and qeylIS knows I don't give a crap about what a klingon would or would not say. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
FWIW the version without {-be'} is used in the paq'batlh's introduction: (PB, p. vii-viii): His [i.e. Kahless’] name is commonly accompanied by the epithet "The Unforgettable" ({lIjlaHbogh pagh}) or "The Greatest Warrior of Them All" ({SuvwI' Dun law' Hoch Dun [puS]}). [ I don't have the paq'batlh available. Is {puS} really omitted here? ] ... while the version with {-be'} is used elsewhere: yIntaHvIS qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay' batlh 'etlhvam chenmoHlu'pu' this sword of honor descends from the time of Kahless the Unforgettable. [SkyBox S8] qeylIS tIghmey'e' DaH tIQoy / teH tIghmey 'ej bIH bolIjlaHbe' Hear now […] The ways of Kahless, For they are true And unforgettable. (PB) [ Is the epithet used anywhere else in the paq'batlh? ] loD lIjlaHbe'bogh vay' wIlIjpu', tuqmeymaj tay'moHmeH qeylIS'e'. We have forgotten the Unforgettable, the last to unify our tribes: Kahless. [DSC "The Vulcan Hello" (NON-CANON)] wovmoHwI' yItlha'. tIquvma yItlha'. tIquvma lIjlaHbe'bogh vay'! Follow the light. Follow T'Kuvma. T'Kuvma the Unforgettable! [DSC "Battle at the Binary Stars" (NON-CANON)] __ Voragh -----------------------------------Original Message---------------------------------------- From: mayqel qunen'oS Another good question would be how this all relates to saying "an unforgettable journey": {leng lIjlaHbogh pagh} or {leng lIjlaHbe'bogh vay'}. Personally, I'd choose {leng lIjlaHbogh pagh} for a truly unforgettable experience, and {leng lIjlaHbe'bogh vay'} for an unforgettable journey which isn't as awesome as the former. Of course, this is just my personal preference, and qeylIS knows I don't give a crap about what a klingon would or would not say.
participants (5)
-
De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
Will Martin