Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Verbs of measure
I think it would be a stretch to say that those who read and compose messages by typing or copying words and sentences into boQwI’ speak Klingon. I mean, yes, many who speak Klingon do enjoy the assistance of boQwI’, but this message seemed to suggest limiting the group under consideration to those who wholly rely on it, without memorizing any vocabulary or learning any grammar. I’ve always been impressed by how much work most people on this list actually put into the skill levels they’ve achieved here, either by impressive natural talent or by dogged determination and years of practice. Speaking for myself, the skill I inexplicably honed at using this language has been an odd source of self-esteem to carry me through times when the rest of my life didn’t bother to offer many boosts in that area. Even if I’m picked last for the neighborhood volleyball team, at least I knew I was one of the very few people in the world who could speak Klingon. I might lose a girlfriend or a job or whatever, but, darn it all, I am a Friend of Maltz, and several words exist in the Klingon vocabulary because I asked for them. I may suck at a long list of things I’ve tried to do before, but hey, I came up with the idea of expressing the question “Which weapon do you want?” as the command, “Choose your weapon!” because we don’t have a question word for “which” in this language, and we don’t need one, either. So THERE! I may not have enough vocabulary at my fingertips to conversationally keep up with a lot of the people on this list, even after decades of participating in this list, but man, if you just give me a few minutes and boQwI’, I can craft some really beautiful Klingon sentences, and I know the grammar well, even among the best here. Not perfect, mind you, but pretty darned good. If boQwI’ was all anybody needed to speak Klingon, then it would not be such an effective source of nerd pride. The Few, the Proud, the Guys (think gender-neutral version of that term) With Entirely Too Much Time Without Something More Important To Do: Klingon Speakers. I’ve been one since qep’a’ wa’DIch. Then I got married and stopped going to qep’a’mey… [sigh] But hey, I’m still here, after all these years. Last Friday, I had a simple first moment. I realized that it had been a while since I ate, and I thought, “I’m hungry,” in English while I said, {jIghung} and gestured the same in ASL, all with one smooth mental exercise of expression. It’s not an impressive feat, but it was truly unplanned, simultaneous, and innocently accidental in three languages. And it felt really weird... charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Mar 31, 2019, at 12:21 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
“They” cannot conceive of non-Trekkies who speak Klingon, so anyone who does must be a Trekkie, and that’s where they’ll put you.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>
From: Will Martin <mailto:willmartin2@mac.com> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 10:36 AM To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org> Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Verbs of measure
They don’t.
Sent from my iPhone. charghwI’
On Mar 30, 2019, at 8:42 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 3/30/2019 8:04 PM, Christa Hansberry wrote: Where do non-Trekkies who hang out on the Klingon mailing list and read and compose messages by typing or copying words and sentences into boQwI' fit in? :-P
"Trekkies who speak Klingon."
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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Well, you kinda do need to know some grammar to get anything intelligible out of boQwI', but I see your point. Presumably, being in the process of actively learning the language while doing the aforementioned boQwI'-using would make a difference... Unfortunately, it's not at all clear to me at what point between being able to say "My name is..." and "one two three four five", and rambling on like it's your native language, does one become a "speaker" of any language; I have had long conversations in Spanish, and still hesitate to say that I speak it, because there's sooooo much I still don't understand. :-( And yeah, if the fact that I'm learning Klingon comes up in discussion, on a forum or whatever, people do assume I'm a Trekkie, which is sometimes awkward. Not that I have anything against Trekkies, or am ashamed of the association, it's just that then I get messages from people wanting to chat about ST (which is perfectly natural and understandable), and then I have to either pretend I know what they're talking about and try to say something relevant, admit I haven't seen ST, or try to fake it and fail, and be exposed as a fraud... all of which are rather awkward. Apparently TOS used to be free to watch on YouTube, but it doesn't look like anybody's showing it for free anymore, otherwise I'd probably watch that at least... Clearly, I need to make friends with somebody who has all the Star Trek episodes on DVD, and thinks letting me come over and watch them is a wonderful idea. :-P I do understand the "odd source of self-esteem" thing... I may fail, or succeed mediocrely (totally a word!), at many things, but I don't know anybody else who's on the Pi World Ranking List (and not at the bottom either... though the figure listed there is wayyy outdated, less than half of what I have memorized now). :-D -QISta' On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 1:13 PM Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
I think it would be a stretch to say that those who read and compose messages by typing or copying words and sentences into boQwI’ speak Klingon. I mean, yes, many who speak Klingon do enjoy the assistance of boQwI’, but this message seemed to suggest limiting the group under consideration to those who wholly rely on it, without memorizing any vocabulary or learning any grammar.
I’ve always been impressed by how much work most people on this list actually put into the skill levels they’ve achieved here, either by impressive natural talent or by dogged determination and years of practice.
Speaking for myself, the skill I inexplicably honed at using this language has been an odd source of self-esteem to carry me through times when the rest of my life didn’t bother to offer many boosts in that area. Even if I’m picked last for the neighborhood volleyball team, at least I knew I was one of the very few people in the world who could speak Klingon. I might lose a girlfriend or a job or whatever, but, darn it all, I am a Friend of Maltz, and several words exist in the Klingon vocabulary because I asked for them.
I may suck at a long list of things I’ve tried to do before, but hey, I came up with the idea of expressing the question “Which weapon do you want?” as the command, “Choose your weapon!” because we don’t have a question word for “which” in this language, and we don’t need one, either. So THERE!
I may not have enough vocabulary at my fingertips to conversationally keep up with a lot of the people on this list, even after decades of participating in this list, but man, if you just give me a few minutes and boQwI’, I can craft some really beautiful Klingon sentences, and I know the grammar well, even among the best here. Not perfect, mind you, but pretty darned good.
If boQwI’ was all anybody needed to speak Klingon, then it would not be such an effective source of nerd pride.
The Few, the Proud, the Guys (think gender-neutral version of that term) With Entirely Too Much Time Without Something More Important To Do: Klingon Speakers.
I’ve been one since qep’a’ wa’DIch.
Then I got married and stopped going to qep’a’mey… [sigh]
But hey, I’m still here, after all these years.
Last Friday, I had a simple first moment. I realized that it had been a while since I ate, and I thought, “I’m hungry,” in English while I said, {jIghung} and gestured the same in ASL, all with one smooth mental exercise of expression. It’s not an impressive feat, but it was truly unplanned, simultaneous, and innocently accidental in three languages.
And it felt really weird...
charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan
rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Mar 31, 2019, at 12:21 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
“They” cannot conceive of non-Trekkies who speak Klingon, so anyone who does must be a Trekkie, and that’s where they’ll put you.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
*From: *Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> *Sent: *Sunday, March 31, 2019 10:36 AM *To: *tlhingan-hol@kli.org *Subject: *Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Verbs of measure
They don’t.
Sent from my iPhone. charghwI’
On Mar 30, 2019, at 8:42 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 3/30/2019 8:04 PM, Christa Hansberry wrote: Where do non-Trekkies who hang out on the Klingon mailing list and read and compose messages by typing or copying words and sentences into boQwI' fit in? :-P
"Trekkies who speak Klingon."
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
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charghwI':
I am a Friend of Maltz, and several words exist in the Klingon vocabulary because I asked for them
wa' Dol nIvDaq matay'DI' maQap.. pa'logh, 'op mu'mey chu' vItlhobta' je, 'ej maHvaD mu'meyvam 'otHa'ta' matlh; vaj muquvmoHpu'. not muleghpu' 'a muquvmoHpu', 'ej maHvaD 'op mu'mey tu'lu', mu'meyvam vItlhobta'mo'. vaj jIbel. vabDot, maHvaD narghpu' {net jalchugh}, qaSpu'DI' wa' poH; qaStaHvIS poHvam, irrealis wIghajpu'be'mo' jIbepqu'taH.. 'ej ghIq, narghpu' {net jalchugh}. poymar.. vaj , nItebHa' maQap, nItebHa' mataH. We succeed together in a greater whole.. In the past, I have asked for several new words, and maltz disclosed these words for us. I felt honored, since maltz has never even seen me; however, now, a number of words exists because I asked for them, so I'm pleased. even the {net jalchugh} mysteriously appeared, after a period I was complaining (rather intensely..) with regards to the fact that klingon didn't have irrealis. So, together, as a community, we succeed, and together, as a community, we survive. charghwI':
I’ve always been impressed by how much work most people on this list actually put into the skill levels they’ve achieved here, either by impressive natural talent or by dogged determination and years of practice.
bIlugh; tlhIngan Hol lo'laHchu'meH vay', tlhoy vumnIS. meqvammo', Holvam (Holmaj) lupumchoHDI' taghwI'pu' latlhpu' joq, matIwchoH. HolvamvaD, tlhoy mavumta'mo', 'ej tlhoy mavumtaHmo', qeQ wIcherghqangbe'bej jay' ! You're right; in order to learn properly klingon, you need to work your ass off. Because of this reason, when beginners or strangers begin to accuse this language (our language), we tend to react emotionally. Because we have worked excessively, and continue working excessively for it, we certainly aren't willing to tolerate anyone's crap. 'ej QISta', wa' qeS neH.. yIlaj DaneHchugh.. and christa, just an advice.. accept it if you want.. povbej boQwI', 'a tlhoy yIwuvQo'; tlhIngan Hol DaghojmeH, yabwIj DaraDnIS; 'a 'oHvaD, DuH ngeD (boQwI') DanobtaHchugh, chay' tlhIngan Hol bItlhlaH ? mu'tlheghmeylIj le' DaqonlaHmeH, SoH retlhDaq boQwI' DalannIS. Do'Ha', pagh latlh DuH tu'lu'. boQwI' is really great, but don't rely excessively on it; in order to learn klingon you need to force your mind; but if you continuously offer it the easy way out (boQwI'), then how will it adapt to klingon ? In order to become able to compose your own particular sentences, you need to set boQwI' aside. Unfortunately, there is no other way.. ~ m. qunen'oS I find ca'non inadherence disturbing
participants (3)
-
Christa Hansberry -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Will Martin