The words we received from Maltz for this year's qepHom were not sorted by any system. I tried to arrange them by topics, which I will use in the subject line, so the discussions about the words are also sorted. ---- SIQab'el n. Scrabble (the game) – This is just the Klingon spelling for the copyrighted name of the game. teSra' n. tile (such as a Scrabble piece) Qay'mol n. puzzle – like a jigsaw puzzle or those metal hoops that need to be untangled or any puzzle that involves a physical object or objects that must be manipulated. Qay'mol teSra' n. puzzle piece (referring to a jigsaw puzzle) ngutlh nagh n. die/dice with letters nelchu' v. fit in perfectly, fit perfectly – like a piece in a jigsaw puzzle (based on the verb nel match, pair up, map onto) -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/NewWordsQepHom2018
Thanks for sharing the lists!
nelchu' v. fit in perfectly, fit perfectly – like a piece in a jigsaw puzzle (based on the verb nel match, pair up, map onto)
Do we know how {nel} is used in a sentence? Some of the glosses ("map onto") seem to favor to structure {B nel A.} ("A matches B."), while others (such as "pair up") seem to favor {nel A B je.} ("A and B match."). There is also the possibility that it could be like {ghom}, where both syntaxes work; perhaps it depends on whether or not the components are equally important (i.e. "these two pieces go together") as opposed to one piece fitting into a larger whole (i.e. "this one piece fits in with the 367 pieces we've already laid out"). //loghaD ________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 14:47 To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] qepHom 2018 - Games The words we received from Maltz for this year's qepHom were not sorted by any system. I tried to arrange them by topics, which I will use in the subject line, so the discussions about the words are also sorted. ---- SIQab'el n. Scrabble (the game) – This is just the Klingon spelling for the copyrighted name of the game. teSra' n. tile (such as a Scrabble piece) Qay'mol n. puzzle – like a jigsaw puzzle or those metal hoops that need to be untangled or any puzzle that involves a physical object or objects that must be manipulated. Qay'mol teSra' n. puzzle piece (referring to a jigsaw puzzle) ngutlh nagh n. die/dice with letters nelchu' v. fit in perfectly, fit perfectly – like a piece in a jigsaw puzzle (based on the verb nel match, pair up, map onto) -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/NewWordsQepHom2018 _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 20.11.2018 um 22:48 schrieb Felix Malmenbeck:
Do we know how {nel} is used in a sentence?
Good you ask, I almost forgot to include that, as it was not a complete message we received. Briefly, Okrand agreed that {nel} is used like {rur}. Background: At the qepHom, we played the game where you have to find two matching cards. (In German, we call that "memory", but Okrand told me that in English it's called "concentration".) I wanted to call the game something like {nelwI'} or {tInelmoH}, which Okrand rejected both, as it sounds strange. See the message here: ----------------------------------- As for {nel} -- The more I think about it, {tInel} is not so good. But {tInelmoH} is not so good either. You are correct -- {nel} works like {rur}. So you can say {A nel B} "B matches A." You can also say {nelchuq A B je} "A and B match each other." When you say {tInel}, the subject (unspoken, because it's an imperative) is "you," but what is the object? If you say {A yInel}, the subject is "you" and the object, presumably, is A, but this would mean something like "Match A!" (that is, it's a command for you to match A or match up with A. Similarly, {A B je tInel} is a command for you to be a match with both A and B. Let's look at the construction if imperative is not involved (and let's switch to singular). What would {Danel} mean? {A Danel} is something like "you match A." {A B je Danel} is "you match both A and B" (that is, you are a match with A and you are also a match with B). That's not what we're trying to say. So how about {nelmoH}? {A DanelmoH} might mean "you cause A to match," but match what? {A B je DanelmoH} might mean "you cause A and B to match," but that doesn't mean A and B are matching each other -- it means you cause A and B to match something else -- but what? The problem is that {nel} takes a subject and an object (the two things that match each other), but not a third thing. And you can't use the prefix trick with {nelmoH} because there is no non-third-person indirect object. So to give the command "Make A match B," you have to do it periphrastically. ----------------------------------- So I labeled the game with {chang'engmey}. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 08:16, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
...And you can't use the
prefix trick with {nelmoH} because there is no non-third-person indirect object.
moHaqmey, DelmeH wotmey je QIjbogh ngerwIj'e' tlhochlu'pu'. DaH vIlonnIS.
ngerlIj yIQIj. Someone needs to put together an updated edition of TKD with added sections like '4.1.4 The "Prefix Trick"'. -- De'vID
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 2:06 AM Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
So how about {nelmoH}? {A DanelmoH} might mean "you cause A to match," but match what? {A B je DanelmoH} might mean "you cause A and B to match," but that doesn't mean A and B are matching each other -- it means you cause A and B to match something else -- but what?
The problem is that {nel} takes a subject and an object (the two things that match each other), but not a third thing. And you can't use the prefix trick with {nelmoH} because there is no non-third-person indirect object.
So to give the command "Make A match B," you have to do it periphrastically.
I'm a little late on this, but what about *-vaD*? We've seen it used before for sentences where *-moH* is used on transitive verbs and the original subject gets relegated to a *-vaD* noun, in the form of *B verb A -> AvaD B verbmoH X.* Would that not work here? *DochvetlhvaD Dochvam DanelmoH* "You make this thing match to that thing", or "You make this thing a match intended for that thing" (to translate *-vaD* a little more literally).
participants (5)
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Alan Anderson -
De'vID -
Felix Malmenbeck -
Lieven L. Litaer -
nIqolay Q