On Tuesday 21 Mar 2017 14:41:47 SuStel wrote:

> On 3/21/2017 1:56 PM, Jeremy Silver wrote:

> > I too have been having trouble finding a good way to express sand and

> > ash and bribe for example. I think describing ground-up rock confuses

> > people if trying to talk about sand.

>

> Hmm. *nagh pullu'pu'bogh* is actually a pretty decent substitute for

> /sand./

>

True, but it's also an overly complicated term to use for poetic or lyrical use.

*rIy'o'* 'oH be' pong'e'. 'ej naghDaq pullu'pu'bogh mI' ghaH.

> > While on the subject of sand my wish-list extends to:

> >

> > beach (n)

> >

> > coast/shore (n)

>

> We already have /beach:/ *bIQ'a' HeH.* This will often work for /coast/

> or /shore/ as well; the phrase *bIQ'a' HeH* doesn't show us the

> difference between those and /beach. /If I wanted to contrast an actual

> beach and some non-beach shoreline, I might struggle with describing a

> sandy beach shore and a non-sandy beach shore.

We do? Please remind me of the source on this one.

While we're discussing *bIQ'a' HeH*, and to confirm if I'd be using it correctly, how would you all interpret:

{bIQ'a' 'ev tIng HeH}

>

> > sail (n)

> >

> > oar (n)

> >

> > Don't know if Marc's painted himself into a corner with turning "row

> > your boat" into "propel your ship", but a {vo'wI'} can mean a few things.

>

> Did he translate that? I don't remember this. What is the source?

The vo'wI' bit I inferred from something he's reported to have said, maybe not a translation in-and-of-itself but an interview about a translation of his - perhaps the anthem?

>

>

> Don't think so, though something about that is nagging me. I'm also

> thinking you might do something with *Don* and maybe *vel**,* but it's

> clumsy.

>

As parallel things don't cross, would that be something based on {DonHa'} or the like?

>

> > Do we have a usual way of expressing the concept of "beyond" like:

> > On the other side of the mountain, there is a prison kind of thing?

> >

> > or Past the crossroads someone did something?

>

> *HuD latlh Dop retlhDaq bIghHa' tu'lu'*/in the area next to the

> mountain's other side there is a prison./ But that doesn't cover phrases

> like /far over the Misty Mountains cold,/ where the thing you're talking

> about isn't immediately next to the other side of the mountain. You

> might play with something like *pa' Hop* /faraway thereabouts. /This

> starts to run into "sometimes inaccurate but never approximate" territory.

Thanks for the response and identifying the reference. Why do I get the feeling I'm not the only one to try translating that poem?