@Voragh:
1/ Thanks for sharing the full canon references on < pong >. I realize I was actually using the prefix trick in my exercises at home without realizing it. Looking at the examples, I figure the most correct sentence structure in those cases is as below:
[indirect object]-vaD [direct object] [verb]
(who is called)-vaD (what they’re called) (verb)
So I would assume that this structure is also valid for any similar verb that can have 2 objects, like < jatlh > (tell, say)
Thus, taking the example “I told you no” (“you” being singular here):
Correct/classical grammar:
SoHvaD < ghobe’ > vIjatlhta’
Here the verb
prefix is vI (I--it), agreeing with the direct object < ghobe’ >.
Prefix trick:
< ghobe’ > qajatlhta’
with the prefix agreeing with the indirect object “you”.
(If I’m getting it wrong, as always I really appreciate your corrections!)
2/ Regarding ’egh : thanks for your full explanation on this, it’s all clear now and duly noted!
3/
[Yes Aurélie, there is a different verb for each finger and toe!]
tlhaQ ’oHvam ! :D
I wonder which language (if any) inspired this peculiarity in Klingon!
@De’vID
This is true for verbs of movement. But for verbs describing a state, the imperative requires {-'eghmoH}
Duly noted too, many thanks!
@Lieven / Quvar
1/ While we’re all influenced by our mother tongues when learning or speaking new languages, it can also be a strength sometimes.
For the –lu’ suffix, I like to compare it to the French “on” (3rd person singular pronoun), which also conveys that the subject of the sentence is an indefinite someone (except when “on” means “we” – it depends on the context – but I digress). So, comparing & seeing where it’s similar (or not) helps me learn.
Similarly, in my notes on verbal prefixes, I translated the TKD prefix table into French, because we have 2 distinct pronouns for “you” (singular “tu” and plural “vous”), and Klingon makes the same singular/plural distinction.
Did you use similar techniques when learning Klingon, comparing some of its features with other languages to help you learn?
2/ Thanks also for sharing comparative French - German examples – I’m still a beginner in German so it helps my German-learning too!
~mughwI'
Aurélie :
>> So then if someone gives an order to 1 other person to sit in Klingon,
>> it will be < yIba’ > but not < yIba’egh >, because in English you
>> would normally say “sit down” but not “sit yourself down” (although
>> the 2nd phrasing does actually exist, it seems to be nonstandard).
De'vID:
> This is true for verbs of movement. But for verbs describing a state, the
> imperative requires {-'eghmoH}. You can't say, e.g., "be hot!", but must
> say "Make yourself hot!" See KGT (Klingon for the Galactic
> Traveler) p. 117.
For those who don't have a copy KGT:
(KGT 117): Generally, when a verb describing a state of being (for example, {tuj} ["be hot"]) is used in the imperative form, the suffixes {-'egh} (reflexive suffix) and {-moH} (cause) are used as well...
yItuj'eghmoH
Heat yourself! ("Cause yourself to be hot!")
yItaD'eghmoH
Freeze yourself! ("Cause yourself to be frozen!")
Okrand has two other non-imperative examples:
quv'eghmoH
he/she honors him/herself (st.k 11/1997)
muptaHvIS tay''eghmoH QeHDaj Hoch
All his rage focused in one blow (PB)
However - and with Okrand there is always a "however"! - there are some peculiarities with {-'egh}. Here are two of them:
(st.k 7/1999): Though not common, it is also possible to use {tatlh} with the reflexive suffix {-'egh} ("do something to oneself") to convey a meaning similar to that of {chegh}:
pa'Daq jItatlh'egh "I return to the room" ...
The {tatlh'egh} form seems to suggest that the doer of the action is forcing himself/herself to do something, perhaps because it is difficult or not desirable.
tatlh return (something) (v)
chegh return (to a place) (v)
(HQ 10.2:8-9): There are some special uses of the reflexive forms of the finger verbs. For example, while {ghIchwIj vISIq} means "I touch my nose with my index finger" and {ghIchwIjDaq jISIq} means "I point at my nose with my index finger", the phrase {ghIchwIjDaq jISIq'egh} (with {–'egh} "oneself"), literally "I use at myself my index finger at my nose", is used for "I pick my nose with my index finger". Similarly, {nujDajDaq rIl'egh ghu}, literally "at his/her mouth, the baby uses at him/herself his/her thumb", is used for "the baby sucks its thumb". [...] It also works with the toe verbs: {nujDajDaq mar'egh ghu} "the baby sucks its big toe".
SIq use the index finger (v)
rIl use the thumb (v)
mar use the big toe (v)
[Yes Aurélie, there is a different verb for each finger and toe!]
--
Voragh
tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org