On 12/6/2016 1:16 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:

there is something I noticed on {-moH}.

If we use it on an intransitive verb it makes it transitive:

jISaQ I cry
qaSaQmoH I make you cry

But what if we place it on a transitive ?

jIchoH I change
qachoH I change you
qachoHmoH I cause you to change

jIyuv I push
qayuv I push you
qayuvmoH I cause you to push

I don't know how to describe it in grammar terms, but it seems that as soon as we place the {-moH} on a transitive verb, then the object can't "do what the verb says to someone or something else".

If I write qayuvmoH for I make you push, then I may obviously be saying "I make you push", but how do I say "I make you push the table" ?

raS qayuvmoH ? Is this correct ? can we have the {raS} just sitting there unmarked ?


Shame on you for not paying attention!

The current thinking, supported by a couple of canonical sentences, seems to be that your desired sentence would be: SoHvaD raS vIyuvmoH.

My explanation for this is that one must do more than blindly follow syntax; one must examine the semantic role each noun is playing. There is an action, yuv. Someone pushes the table, raS yuv. I cause the table to be pushed, raS vIyuvmoH (doesn't say who pushes it; I cause the action so I'm the subject and it's done to the table so the table is the object). I cause you to push it, SoHvaD raS vIyuvmoH; you're the receiver of what I did (cause the pushing).

We can play this game with other sentences:

quHDaj qaw he remembers his heritage
quHDaj qawmoH Ha'quj the sash reminds (someone) of his heritage
ghaHvaD quHDaj qawmoH Ha'quj the sash reminds him of his heritage

yIn Hegh je ghoj he learns life and death
yIn Hegh je vIghojmoH I teach life and death (to someone)
ghaHvaD yIn Hegh je vIghojmoH I teach him life and death

Guess what! Those are based on canon sentences:

tuQtaHvIS Hem. ghaHvaD quHDaj qawmoH  He wears it proudly as a reminder of his heritage. (SkyBox S20)

petaQvam vIqopbej / QIt ghaHvaD yIn Hegh je vIghojmoH I will bring this p'takh to justice / And teach him life and death

Now remember, and this is extremely important: this is perhaps the most controversial, war-causing, pain-inducing topic on this list EVER. Be very careful when talking about it. Think before you post.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name