On 3/30/2022 7:39 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
chalqachDaq bIQaDbe' je
even in a tower you are not safe

I think this sentence shows that the {je} "too" *can* indeed refer to the type-5'ed noun of the sentence too. I know that the translation is given as "even.." instead of "at a tower you aren't safe too", but obviously this is just a matter of choice of words. The only way I can understand it is "in a tower you aren't safe too", i.e. "among the various places where you aren't safe, is a tower too".

You are applying the grammar of the English sentence to the Klingon sentence, but the grammar of the Klingon sentence is different.

In English, you can move the even around to apply it to different elements. Even in a tower, you are not safe. In a tower, even you are not safe. In a tower, you are not even safe.

In Klingon, you can't do this. You've either got the adverbial vabDot, or you've got the leftover je used adverbially, and each is fixed in position. Klingon can't even individual parts of a sentence; it can only even entire sentences.


So perhaps it is possible to say:

ngugh bIpujpu'
DaH bIpuj je

You were weak then
You're weak now too

The perfective on the first sentence is wrong. Being weak is a quality, not an action that is completed. There might be some unusual situations where being weak can be described as performed and completed, but this isn't one of them.

ngugh bIpuj.
DaH bIpuj je.

The ability to decide which part of the sentence gets the too in the English translation comes from context. The first sentence happened at that time; the second sentence happens now. That's the only thing that changed between the two sentences, so obviously it's the element that is being too'd. But this isn't indicated in any way in the grammar of the second sentence.

At that time you were weak.
"Now you are weak" is also a true statement.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name