Hooray! It's now perfectly fine to say bIvoqbe' 'ej muSuj 'e'! Because Okrand said breaking rules is acceptable, and we all KNOW what the sentence means!

And now we can say qatlh ghaH DaHoHpu' 'e' vISov I know why you killed him, because c'mon, we all KNOW what it means.

And OF COURSE we can say chenmoH Da'oy' jIH, because it's completely obviously what that means. Anyone who couldn't understand THAT one has got to be brain-damaged.

(Or maybe, just maybe, he just means that we should look at Klingon samples in their proper contexts, that what he writes shouldn't be analyzed as perfect and completely normative text. A Skybox card is just a Skybox card, not an Officially Sanctioned Representative of Klingon Grammar.)


On 4/3/2019 8:25 AM, Will Martin wrote:
Awwwwriiiiiight!

So, I can say {tlhIngan Hol’e’ be’nalwI’ vIghojmoH} because, even though it doesn’t follow the formula given us ({be’nalwI’vaD tlhIngan Hol vIghojmoH}), it obviously makes sense to anyone who speaks Klingon, right?

The two objects of {ghojmoH} are the beneficiary and the topic. You can leave either unmarked if there is only one showing, but if both are there, you can’t leave both unmarked. He stylistically prefers to mark the beneficiary, but it should be fine for me to prefer to mark the topic. In fact, it should be okay to say {tlhIngan Hol’e’ be’nalwI’vaD jIghojmoH.}

[Let the fireworks begin.]

charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan

rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.




On Apr 2, 2019, at 10:53 AM, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 02.04.2019 um 16:36 schrieb De'vID:
record-keeping and historical purposes, but please don't worship pairs
of Klingon-English sentences like they're holy.

THanks for that. It's very interesting, and it confirms something else.
While planning the Miniature thing, I talked to Okrand about the
dictionary and the grammar. Also here, he repeated that TKD is way from
being complete. He added that if he omitted something, it does not mean
that it doesn't exist at all. He also repeated that - what he even wrote
in his introduction - although it sometimes says "always" or "never",
even that should not be takes as holy. It happens very often that a
situation occurs which he did not think about. So if speakers find a
solution that "somehow" makes sense and is understandable, then they
should use it, instead of saying it's not possible to do so, or we don't
know how to. Even breaking rules might be acceptable - think of english
"ain't not" and so on.

The language is alive, and lives from being used. Don't take TKD too
strictly as 100% set in stone. It's only a rough introduction, not a
final law.


--
Lieven L. Litaer
aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"
http://www.klingonisch.de
http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Canon
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