<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div>While he’s excellently capable of defending his proposition, I’m with SuStel on this one. It conveys the meaning excellently, without messing with QaO (Question as Object, which is not a thing in Klingon).</div><div><br></div><div>I’ll add that I think, “I wonder whether whether Mike stole my pie,” is a rather day-dreamy thing for a Klingon to say. “Maybe he stole it. Maybe he didn’t. I don’t know. I guess I’d sort of like to know. Gee, I wonder if there’s any way to know for sure. If anybody hears anything about my pie or anybody who might know whether Mike took it or not, it sure would be nice if somebody told me.”</div><div><br></div><div>It would be much more in character to walk up to Mike, head-butt him and ask, nose to nose: {chabwIj DanIH, qar’a’?}</div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<meta charset="UTF-8"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div>pItlh</div><div><br></div><div>charghwI’ ‘utlh</div><div>(ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)</div><div><br></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 10, 2024, at 9:03 PM, André Müller via tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="auto"><div>But {Sov} and {SIv} don't work the same way. It is stated that {SIv} can be used after {'e'} and then explicitly can be translated as "to wonder if". The semantics of the verb allow this reading.</div><div dir="auto">Not so with {Sov}. Here you'd have a question as the object, which isn't allowed in Klingon.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote><p>chabwIj nIHpu' Mike 'e' vISovbe'<br>
I don't know whether Mike stole my pie.</p></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto">I don't accept this translation.</div><div dir="auto">That sentence can only mean:</div><div dir="auto">"I don't know that Mike stole my pie."</div><div dir="auto">(or perhaps in a more usual context "I didn't know that...")</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Think of {SIv} as "I want to know the truth value of the sentence..." which is essentially what "wonder if" means. {Sov} doesn't seem to have that particular reading.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">— André / Vortarulo</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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