<div style=""><span data-setdir="false" dir="ltr" style="">I have two suggestions related to type-5 noun suffixes.</span></div><div style=""><span data-setdir="false" dir="ltr" style=""><br></span></div><div style=""><span data-setdir="false" dir="ltr" style="">1)</span></div><div style=""><span data-setdir="false" dir="ltr" style=""><br></span></div><blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200); border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><span data-setdir="false" dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.5">An example with two complements: {nob}; what is the the canon Klingon for "I make him give the book to them"?</span></div></blockquote><div style=""><span data-setdir="false" dir="ltr" style=""><br></span></div><div style="">This sentence has both a recipient and a causee. I'm unsure if there is a simple Klingon <b>-moH</b> sentence that does this, but there is an important question: which of them we can mark with <b>-vaD</b>?</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">If we have the following sentence:</div><div style=""><br></div><div style=""><b>chaHvaD paq vInobmoH.</b></div><div style=""><b><br></b></div><div style="">Does it mean "I make (someone unspecified) give the book to them" (<b>-vaD</b><font face="Arial, sans-serif" style=""><b> </b>indicates the recipient)</font> or "I make them give the book (to someone unspecified)" (<b>-vaD</b> indicates the causee)?</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">I have heard many times that people have said it should be the latter, ie. the indirect object is the party who is made to do something, the causee. I'm not entirely convinced of this.</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">In the <b>XvaD Y ghojmoH </b>example we have, these two possible interpretations of <b>-vaD</b> overlap: the indirect object X is both the recipient of the teaching and the causee of the learning. Therefore, we cannot know which fo those <b>-vaD</b> marks in a general case.</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">I'd like this to be clarified in the third edition.</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">2)</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">The meaning of <b>-'e'</b> when used at the start of a sentence. We have one example in which it seemingly marks the topic. Does this generalize? Can we always mark a topic using <b>-'e'</b> and in which situations this is a common thing to do, since it appears to be very rare in canonical Klingon.</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio</div><div class="protonmail_quote">
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On Wednesday, May 17th, 2023 at 20.47, Alan Anderson via tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org> wrote:<br><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 2:38 PM Michael Kúnin via tlhIngan-Hol <<a href="mailto:tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr">An example with two complements: {nob}; what is the the canon Klingon for "I make him give the book to them"?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>That's not a sentence I've seen in canon. I think {chaHvaD paq nob ghaH 'e' vIqaSmoH} is reasonably obvious, but I've been doing this for more than a quarter of a century and I've collected a fair number of patterns to use when translating such phrases. The second verb could also be something like {vIraD} or {vIra'} or {vIpoQ}, depending on what shade of meaning you want "make" to have.<br><br>-- ghunchu'wI'</div></div></div>
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