<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">It’s interesting that both your suggestion and the English version are ambiguous. Do I also want to go to France, or do I also want YOU to go to France?<div><br></div><div>And if I wanted to accompany you…</div><div><br></div><div>Most likely, any of these ideas are sufficiently supplemental that it’s worth the few words to explicitly say what you mean instead of trying to abbreviate it into some pair of words, appending the previous sentence. <br><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Nov 25, 2022, at 8:31 AM, MorphemeAddict via tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"courier new",monospace">How about using «'ej» with the jIH-form of the previous verb? </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"courier new",monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"courier new",monospace"><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"courier new",monospace"></span>«juH qach vIghaj» (“I have a house.”)<br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">«'ej vIghaj» (“Me too”)</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">or</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">«vIraS vIjaH vIneH» (“I want to go to France.”)</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">«'ej vIneH» (“Me too”)</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">lay'tel SIvten</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 11:23 PM zrajm via tlhIngan-Hol <<a href="mailto:tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org">tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Me, E.T., Thiago and pay'qagh discussed the phase «jIH je» on in the car here at the qepHom'a' in Saarbücken the other day (we were on our way to the party on Friday). – One of them said this topic has been discussed at some earlier meeting (a qep'a'?). I tried to search old tlhingan-hol postings, but I couldn't find anything on the subject.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I've heard lots of people use the phrase «jIH je» to mean “Me too” – as in, for example, in an exchange like:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"courier new",monospace"></span>«juH qach vIghaj» (“I have a house.”)<br></div><div dir="auto">«jIH je» (“Me too”)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">or</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">«vIraS vIjaH vIneH» (“I want to go to France.”)</div><div dir="auto">«jIH je» (“Me too”)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">But I started to wonder what's going on in these phrases. I figure «jIH je» are abbreviations of the longer phrases «juH qach vIghaj je (jIH)» and «vIraS vIjaH vIneH je (jIH)». And, maybe, since the pronoun «jIH» is the only thing verb-like in the sentence, it acts a verb in the shortened phase, and the «je» therefore comes after it. (Though, with that interpretation, «jIH je» sounds more like “I am too” to my ears – but I remember taking about this with someone [HoD Qanqor? Seqram? Qov?] at a qep'a' at some point and getting pushback. – So clearly other people think differently.)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But, what if «jIH» isn't a verb at all in that sentence? (Is there a verb requirement in Klingon sentences? If a lone adverb can act as a sentence [given adequate context] then maybe a noun [or a pronoun functioning as a noun] can too?) If that's so, wouldn't it mean that the sentences «juH qach vIghaj je jIH» and «vIraS vIjaH vIneH je jIH» should rather be abbreviated as «je jIH» (retaining the word order of the longer sentence)? </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Or maybe the response could even abbreviated to just «je»? – Though I figure the pronoun is quite likely to be used for emphasis since that is new information the responder is wishing to convey.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, what do you think? Is «je jIH» better than «jIH je»? And what are you arguments for your belief? – Or should the phrase be avoided altogether and expressed some other way? How?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">/maHvatlh</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">P.S. «je» is classified as a conjunction in TKD (even when used after a verb to mean «too») so it's not a given (at least to me) that it is grammatical to use on its own.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is different from how TKD talks about the, syntactically similar, «neH» “only” (which can also come after both nouns and verbs) in that «neH» is explicitly called an adverbial. (I take this to mean that «neH» on its own it a perfectly fine sentence – though the number of contexts in which it would make sense might be limited.)</div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" target="_blank">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>tlhIngan-Hol mailing list</span><br><span>tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</span><br><span>http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>