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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/22/2022 8:38 PM, zrajm wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 3:17 PM SuStel via
tlhIngan-Hol <<a href="mailto:tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div>On 11/22/2022 8:19 AM, zrajm via tlhIngan-Hol wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">Though it makes me think that
Klingon 2 might abbreviate even more and just say
«je» alone (skipping the verb altogether). – This is
a common practice in (at least Swedish) sign
language, though it seems a bit weird from an
English speaker's perspective.
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<div>Do you think that you (prior to this
discussion) would've understood if just a naked
«je» was used? Or is that to abbreviate too much?</div>
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<p>I'd have understood, but just understanding doesn't
count for much. If in English I said things like "I want
pizza" and "I think that was very nice," and someone
with me kept saying "Also!" right after me, I'd get it.
That doesn't mean they're using the language correctly.</p>
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<div>Weell, from my point of view, being understood is kinda
the whole point – or, at least, the Most Important point.
:) </div>
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<p>If tru, y we no talk like this? U no wut me saying, but we no
talk this way. Y?</p>
<p>Because being understood is about more than just being able to
piece together what the other person is trying to express.
Language is a group of conventions that two communicators have in
common. It is shared culture. Convention and redundancy are an
essential part of language.<br>
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<div>– Though on the whole I'm more interested in whether
people in general would understand, rather than whether or
not any one single individual would. (Making the fact that
you'd understand an important datapoint, if not the whole
picture.)<br>
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<p>I daresay most people would understand my first paragraph above,
but that still doesn't make it right.<br>
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<p>I've been studying Welsh for a while. Welsh has a
gazillion ways to say <i>yes</i> or <i>no,</i> and you
have to pick the right one for the right circumstance.
If someone asked me <i>Wyt ti'n hoffi cwrw?</i> ("Do
you like beer?") and I answered <i>Naddo</i> ("No"
about a past-tense action) instead of <i>Nac ydw</i>
(literally "I am not"), I would have used the language
incorrectly but I daresay I would be understood. I'd
just sound like an idiot.<br>
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You're right though, I might sound like an idiot. But maybe we
all do when we speak Klingon? It's hard to tell what a Real
Klingon would think (but It Is interesting to think about).</div>
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<p>It's what we should strive for. If we just blithely accept <b>jIH
je</b> or even just <b>je</b> as <i>me too,</i> we are saying
"I don't care about the idea that Klingon is set up to resemble a
natural language with a fictional culture behind it." You might as
well chuck <i>Klingon for the Galactic Traveler</i> out the
window if you feel that way, and I should have listened to all
those people who sneer, "Why don't you learn a <i>useful</i>
language?"<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">In a way, since Klingon isn't as
thoroughly documented as Welsh, we might have more leeway for
making up our own styles of speaking.</div>
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<p>A lack of documentation means you don't know the correct answer,
not that you can make up an answer to suit yourself.<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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