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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/21/2022 7:53 AM, D qunen'oS wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLzsBcuKbT+3p3=S9CkEzWTc+ACLFkg3R0z2-0HUU161Q@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">Suppose I write:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">yaS HoHpu' bombogh yan 'ej reH vuQbogh</div>
<div dir="auto">the officer was killed by the singing sword which
always fascinates</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Or</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">yaS HoHpu' bombogh yan 'ej ghIq ngabbogh<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">the officer was killed by the sword which sings
and subsequently vanishes</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I can understand and "feel" why in the
{rIQchoHmoHbogh nuH ('ej} vaj 'oy'choHmoHbogh} the
{vaj 'oy'choHmoHbogh} is a parenthetical miniature sentence.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But in the singing sword examples I can't feel
anything parenthetical in the second {-bogh}.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So I guess the question is this:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In the case of sentences as the ones already
mentioned, is the second {-bogh} phrase to be always understood
as a parenthetical phrase? Or the distinction between what is
parenthetical and what isn't, is rather based on context instead
of whether it's being preceded by an adverb?</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Eh? Neither relative clause is parenthetical. Relative clauses
appear to be restrictive in Klingon — that is, the meaning of the
sentence changes if you drop them.</p>
<b>yaS HoHpu' bombogh yan</b><i><br>
the singing sword killed the officer</i>
<p>This doesn't mean "The sword killed the officer (oh, and by the
way, the sword also sings)." It means "The sword that is the one
that sings killed the officer." The relative clause <b>bombogh</b>
is restrictive.<br>
</p>
<p>This doesn't change just because we conjoin relative clauses.</p>
<p><b>yaS HoHpu' bombogh yan 'ej reH ngabbogh<br>
</b><i>the singing sword that always disappears killed the officer</i></p>
<p>This is literally "The sword which sings and which always
disappears killed the officer." This doesn't mean "The sword
killed the officer (oh, and by the way, it sings and always
disappears)." It doesn't even mean "The sword that sings killed
the officer (oh, and by the way, the sword always disappears)." It
means that the sword that sings and always disappears, that
particular sword, killed the officer. It's not talking about any
other sword in that sentence. Both relative clauses are
restrictive.</p>
<p>The problem you're having is with that <b>ngIq.</b> That
adverbial is trying to pull the disappearing action into a period
of time <i>after</i> the sword killed the officer, but you're
also trying to use the relative clause to describe the sword that
kills the officer. There's nothing ungrammatical about doing this,
but you're confusing yourself because you're trying to imagine the
sword that disappears in the future being used to kill someone in
the past. The <b>ngIq</b> is meant to refer back to the killing,
but it's conjoined with the singing. One would be quite justified
in reading it this way:</p>
<p><b>yaS HoHpu' bombogh yan 'ej ngIq ngabbogh<br>
</b><i>the singing and then disappearing sword killed the officer</i></p>
<p>That is, even though it's obviously not the intention, this would
be more naturally understood as a sword that sings and then
disappears being used to kill an officer, not as a sword that
sings... and then disapears after killing the officer.</p>
<p>When you come across problems like this, where what you're saying
is grammatical but which is likely to be interpreted in a way
different than what you mean, you need to rephrase. Not because
you <i>can't</i> say it that way but because you <i>shouldn't.</i></p>
<p><b>yaS HoHpu' bombogh yan. ngIq ngabpu'.<br>
</b><i>The singing sword killed the officer. Then it disappeared.</i><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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