<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/26/2022 11:07 AM, Iikka Hauhio
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:Mx850oMP7Vvq8Jeg7X7DIEQsXVAIXB7D1tnCVBFLL6dJTSLkiXnuTzN1a4PwehQF1SBT9uVvNT4XWT7lJwmka5OD4X2Fj-_yhmhFMYBYd2E=@protonmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;">SuStel:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200);
border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color:
rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200);
padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;"><span
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:"Inter var",
system-ui, sans-serif;display:inline !important">And by the
way, the gloss of<span> </span></span><b style="color:rgb(0,
0, 0);font-family:"Inter var", system-ui,
sans-serif">ghoS</b><span style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family:"Inter var", system-ui,
sans-serif;display:inline !important"><span> </span>also
includes "go away from." I have no doubt that you could say
things like<span> </span></span><b style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family:"Inter var", system-ui, sans-serif">bIQtIqvo'
vIghoS</b><i style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family:"Inter var", system-ui, sans-serif"><span> </span>I
go away from the river.</i><span style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family:"Inter var", system-ui,
sans-serif;display:inline !important"><span> </span></span><b
style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:"Inter var",
system-ui, sans-serif">ghoS</b><span style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family:"Inter var", system-ui,
sans-serif;display:inline !important"><span> </span>can
impart an ablative meaning to its object instead of a
locative meaning, so we should not be surprised if adding
the ablative suffix to the object has no effect on the
sentence besides being redundant.</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;
color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><span style="display: inline
!important;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;
color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Is there evidence that <b>ghoS</b> can
add the ablative meaning to its object? <b>ghoS</b> is used
tens of times in canon and every time its object doesn't have
any type-5 suffix it means "go (to)".</span></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Perhaps you missed the qualifiers I sprinkled in liberally to
avoid someone challenging me to prove what I was saying. "I have
no doubt." "We should not be surprised if."<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:Mx850oMP7Vvq8Jeg7X7DIEQsXVAIXB7D1tnCVBFLL6dJTSLkiXnuTzN1a4PwehQF1SBT9uVvNT4XWT7lJwmka5OD4X2Fj-_yhmhFMYBYd2E=@protonmail.com">
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222">When <b>ghoS</b> is
used to mean "go away from", it has <b>-vo'</b>:</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><br>
</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200);
border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color:
rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200);
padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><b><span>chaH</span>
<span>neH</span> <span>wovmoHlu'be'<br>
</span></b></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><b><span>chaH</span>
<span>'emvo'</span> ghoS<br>
</b></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><b><span>SuvwI'pu'</span>
<span>mangghom</span> </b><span><b>yoH</b><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><i>The sun
shone not on them only,<br>
</i></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><i>Behind them
came<br>
</i></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><i>An army of
brave warriors.<br>
</i></font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222"><br>
</font></div>
<div style=""><font face="arial" color="#222222">(paq'batlh)</font></div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>I believe that every time <b>ghoS</b> is used to mean "go away
from," it is ambiguous whether the ablative is the object or not.
And even if it's not, that just goes along with all those times <b>jaH</b>
fails to make its locative destination the object.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:Mx850oMP7Vvq8Jeg7X7DIEQsXVAIXB7D1tnCVBFLL6dJTSLkiXnuTzN1a4PwehQF1SBT9uVvNT4XWT7lJwmka5OD4X2Fj-_yhmhFMYBYd2E=@protonmail.com">
<div style="">Based on the evidence we have I don't think we can
say that a nominative object could have an ablative meaning. I
think the definition just means that in some contexts (ie. when
<b>-vo'</b> is used), the verb can be translated with "go away
from".</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I didn't say the evidence shows what I said. I said I wouldn't be
surprised if it were the case. The casualness with which <b>mej</b>
can take a <b>-vo'</b> noun as its object doesn't strike me as <b>mej</b>
being exceptional; it strikes me as a special connotation of
something that might not be terribly remarkable.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</body>
</html>