<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I noticed the same thing. It is strange to have the prefix suggest an object that has a Type 5 suffix (except {-‘e’} because, hey, {-'e’} is soooo exceptional). It’s more typical to say {bIQtIqDaq jIghoS} or {bIQtIq vIghoS} than {bIQtIqDaq vIghoS}.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m sure it can be perfectly justified. I just don’t see myself writing a sentence that does that. Perhaps some time in the future, there will be a circumstance when I’ll change my mind about that, but I don’t foresee it, nor am I especially interested in hearing an explanation of that case. It mostly seems, I don’t know, sloppy, kind of like tossing {tlhonmey} into a sentence with no poetic context.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sure, you can do it. It’s just weird, even if Okrand does it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">One might expect a parallel between the use of {-Daq} with its special verbs and {-vo’} with its special verbs. Again, I’d tend to use the prefix indicating the object when there is no Type 5, and use the prefix indicating no object when there is a Type 5 suffix, but that’s just me. I’m not saying I’m right. I’m just saying that’s how I speak Klingon, and there’s no reason anybody shouldn’t understand that, if they generally understand Klingon.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hey, if they can understand Morskan, they can understand me, and I’m more interested in being understood than I am in being in the know of the most arcane corners of Klingon grammar that are of sufficiently limited utility that it’s not worth the effort to keep up.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div>pItlh</div><div><br class=""></div><div>charghwI’ ‘utlh</div><div>(ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 25, 2022, at 9:43 AM, Steven Boozer <<a href="mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" class="">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The full sentence in case it hasn’t been given yet:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">ghe'tor Da'elta' 'ej lojmItmeyvo' Damejta' 'ach bIrIQbe'mo' SoH neH<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Since you are the only one who ever entered Gre'thor, and left the gates unharmed (PB)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">There’s another sentence in paq’batlh contrasting {‘el} with {mej} without {-vo’}:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">vavlI' loDnI'lI' je DaSammeH ghe'tor Da'elmo' 'ej Damejmo' QeHchoH qa'pu' vaj lubIjlu'<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">They will pay for the anger you caused by entering and leaving Gre'thor in search of your kin. (PB)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Note the poetic parallelism in both: {Da’elta’ ‘ej … Damejta’} and {Da’elmo’ ‘ej Damejmo’}. (Interesting but irrelevant to the issue of whether or not to add {-vo’}.)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">--<br class="">Voragh<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">_________________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>D qunen'oS<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Also, reading the original post, I noticed this Ca'Non sentence:<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">{lojmItmeyvo’ Damejta’}<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">This sentence shows that a {-vo'}ed noun *can* be the object of a verb, something which -for reasons I don't know- I was under the impression that wasn't possible. Perhaps because I could never come up with an example where it would be necessary for a {-vo'}ed noun to be the object of a verb. Who knows? Go figure.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 4pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><br class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Dana'an<br class=""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/__;!!BpyFHLRN4TMTrA!8y3YkHE8UDKU5PpVvBLn0N2Z1NfL2As6Bz5vy5DGIWFQqPTvJNT-2Q1wzeYWEhWiwui5Wjg7uolJnaBFOiA$" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/</a><br class="">Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" class="">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" class="">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>