<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;">SuStel:</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200); border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif;display:inline !important">Klingon has no suffix that does this. If I say<span> </span></span><b style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif">wa'Hu' DungluQ jISoppu',</b><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif;display:inline !important"><span> </span>there is no built-in connotation that I ate before noon yesterday and that the eating is relevant to what happened at noon. All this sentence says is that yesterday at noon, I ate, and it's being described as a completed whole from a viewpoint just after the eating stopped. If I say<span> </span></span><b style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif">wa'leS DungluQ jISoppu',</b><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif;display:inline !important"><span> </span>I'm saying that eating will happen tomorrow at noon, and it's being described as a completed whole from a viewpoint just after the eating stops.</span><br></div></blockquote><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial">Yes.</font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><br></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial">However, <b>-pu'</b> can be used to tell that the action has already happened relative to the "current time of narration".</font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><br></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><b>jIvem. ram jISoppu', DaH jISopnISbe'. SIbI' yaHwIj vIghoS.</b></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><i>I wake up. I ate at night, I don't need to eat now. I go directly to my workplace.</i></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><b><br></b></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial">I'm telling a story using the no-suffix aspect, but in the middle of the story I describe an event that happened before the current time of narration using the perfective aspect.</font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><br></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial">Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio</font></div><div class="protonmail_quote">
------- Original Message -------<br>
On Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 at 19.01, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:<br><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/12/2022 11:45 AM,
<a href="mailto:luis.chaparro@web.de" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">luis.chaparro@web.de</a> wrote:<br>
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">SuStel:
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">ja'chuqghach a telling to each other
ja'chuqtaHghach an ongoing telling to each other
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">Ok, but for verbs without suffix we don't have this difference. I mean, the only way to say *the eating* is saying *the ongoing eating* (*SoptaHghach*), right?</pre>
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<p><b>SoptaHghach</b> means something different than <b>Sopghach.</b>
While <b>Sopghach</b> is not technically a grammatical term,
Okrand explains that you might use such a word temporarily if it
made a technical point, with a wink to its ungrammaticality.</p>
<p>How to say <i>the eating</i> depends on what you mean. A
competed act of eating? <b>Soppu'ghach.</b> An ongoing act of
eating? <b>SoptaHghach.</b> The beginning of the eating? <b>SopchoHghach.</b>
And generally, <b>-ghach</b> is more often used for technical
discussions; usually instead of saying something like <b>nI'
SoptaHghach</b><i> the ongoing eating was long,</i> you'd say
something like <b>SoptaH chaH qaStaHvIS poH nI'</b><i> they were
eating for a long time.</i></p>
<p>And, of course, we can also say <b>Sopchuqghach</b> <i>the
eating of each other...</i><br>
</p>
<p>
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">If you want the "past event relevant to the named time" stuff in Klingon, then you have to say it explicitly. wa'Hu' DungluQ jISoppu', pov vaj pe'vIl jISuvpu' I ate at noon yesterday, so in the afternoon I fought forcefully. I named the time context for each verb to clearly set their temporal order and used vaj to show that the one led to the other.
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">But then, we should do the same for the future, shouldn't we? If we want the *past event relevant to the named time* stuff, we have to say it explicitly. Just saying *wa'leS DungluQ jISoppu'*, without any further context, wouldn't have the connotation of perfect that the English *Tomorrow at noon I will have eaten* has.
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<p>Right. <i>Tomorrow at noon I will have eaten</i> is close to the
meaning of the Klingon, but it's not exact. You might say <b>wa'leS
DungluQ jISoppu', pov vaj pe'vIl jISuvpu'</b><i> Tomorrow at
noon I will have eaten, so in the afternoon I will have fought
forcefully.</i> English doesn't let me say this without the
future perfect tense. If I could borrow the simple past tense, I
could say <i>Tomorrow at noon I ate, so in the afternoon
(tomorrow) I fought forcefully.</i> But we can't say that in
English.<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72" class="moz-signature">--
SuStel
<a href="http://trimboli.name" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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