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<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;">SuStel:</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200); border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif;display:inline !important">A brief glance through canon doesn't bring any quality verbs with<span> </span></span><b style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif">-DI'</b><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue", sans-serif;display:inline !important"><span> </span>to my attention, with one exception that doesn't really count.</span><br></div></blockquote><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial">Through my corpus search I found these examples:</font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><br></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial">paq'batlh:</font></div><blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200); border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><b><span>chu'DI'</span></b> <span>maS</span> <span>'ej</span> <span>qaStaHvIS</span> <span>ram</span></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><span>nuHmeyDaj</span> <span>may'luchDaj</span> <span>nIv</span> <span>je</span></font></div><div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial"><span>yIr</span> <span>qeylIS</span><br></font></div></blockquote><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><font color="#222222" face="arial"><span><br></span></font></div><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">TKW:</span></div><blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200); border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">wa' Dol nIvDaq <b>matay'DI'</b> maQap.<br></span></div></blockquote><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><span style=""><br></span></div><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">PK:</span></div><blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200); border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b>matay'DI'</b>, vIHtaHbogh bIQ rur mu'qaDmey.<br></span></div><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span>DopDaq</span> <span>qul</span> <span>yIchenmoH</span> <b><span>QobDI'</span></b> <span>ghu'</span>.<br></span></div></blockquote><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><span style=""><br></span></div><div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio</span></div><div class="protonmail_quote">
------- Original Message -------<br>
On Thursday, April 7th, 2022 at 16.51, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/7/2022 9:18 AM, Iikka Hauhio
wrote:<br>
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<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;">Dana'an:</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;"><br>
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<blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200);
border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color:
rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200);
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<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:-apple-system,
BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto,
Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, "Helvetica Neue",
sans-serif;display:inline !important">Suppose I say: {wa'Hu'
jIghungDI', pItSa' vIvunpu'}, for "yesterday, as soon as I
was hungry, I ordered a pizza".<br>
I'm asking this because I understand the klingon as
"yesterday, as soon as I'm hungry, I have ordered a pizza",
meaning that I "feel" it very close to "yesterday, as soon
as I'm hungry, I've (already) ordered a pizza".</span><br>
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<div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;
color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><span style="display: inline
!important;"><br>
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<div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;
color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Perhaps you could say</span></div>
<div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;
color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;
color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b>wa'Hu' jIghungchoHDI', wejHa'
pItSa' vIvunpu'.</b></span></div>
<div style=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px;
color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><br>
</b></span></div>
<div style=""><font color="#222222" face="arial">to make clear
that you have ordered the pizza as of becoming hungry.</font></div>
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<p>Yes, the issue here is that <b>-DI'</b> on verbs expressing
qualities often makes little sense, because "as soon as" implies
that something happens <i>as soon as</i> the expressed change
occurs. <b>jIghungDI'</b> doesn't express a change of state; it
only expresses a state, so there's nothing "as soon as" about it.
<b>jIghungchoHDI'</b> solves this problem.</p>
<p>A brief glance through canon doesn't bring any quality verbs with
<b>-DI'</b> to my attention, with one exception that doesn't
really count. (<i>paq'batlh</i> has <b>rInDI'</b><i> as soon as
it is finished,</i> but the verb <b>rIn</b> itself already
implies a change of state to a completion, so it's not a good
example.) One wonders if <i>Q</i><b>-DI'</b> is another
semantically non-sensible combination in Klingon.<br>
</p>
<p>The other issue here is that <b>-DI'</b> doesn't mean "as soon
as the action expressed is finished." <b>vIHoHDI'</b> doesn't
mean that something happens as soon as he is dead; it means,
basically, <i>at the same moment that I kill him.</i> If you want
to describe something that occurs upon the completion of the
killing, rather than simultaneously with the killing, you'd need
to say <b>vIHoHpu'DI'.</b></p>
<p>So for instance:</p>
<p><b>jaghwI' vIHoHDI', qabDajDaq jItuy'.</b><i> When I kill my
enemy, I spit on his face.</i><br>
and<br>
<b>jaghwI' vIHoHpu'DI', tajwIj vISay'moH.</b><i> When I have
killed my enemy, I clean my knife.</i></p>
<p>In the first sentence, I stab my enemy and, as he stares at me
with bulging eyes, I spit on his face. In the second sentence, I
stab my enemy, then he drops to the ground and dies, and then I
clean my knife.</p>
<p>So if we have <b>wa'Hu' jIghungchoHDI', pItSa' vIvunpu',</b>
we're saying that at the moment yesterday that I went from not
hungry to hungry, I ordered a pizza. Again, "moment" in this
context doesn't necessarily mean "instant"; these two events just
happen approximately simultaneously from a human, rather than a
precise, perspective. <b>-DI'</b> doesn't imply precise
simultaneity, just a reasonable approximation. Hey, my stomach is
starting to rumble. Hand me the phone.<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72" class="moz-signature">--
SuStel
<a href="http://trimboli.name" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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