<div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">I agree with SuStel in this case.</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">If you said</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b>wa'Hu' jIghungpu'mo', pItSa' vIvunpu'</b></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><br></b></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">you'd say that there was a complete "being hungry action" and then a complete "ordering action", which isn't what happens. Instead, there is a state of being hungry that leads to the action of ordering pizza, but it doesn't make sense to describe being hungry as a completed action.</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">I know some will disagree with me, but I do think that there are some cases in which a perfective quality verb does make sense. For example, imagine a situation when someone's taste has changed due to a covid infection:</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b>DIS vorgh jIroppu'mo', jaS jImum.</b> <i>Because I had an illness last year, I taste differently.</i></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><i><br></i></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Here, I'm looking back at the complete illness and saying that due to that, I taste differently. In my opinion, using <b>-pu'</b> is fine as I'm talking about the illness as a whole, as a single point in the timeline sometime during the last year. I know some will disagree with me. It should be fine as the alternative (<b style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)">DIS vorgh jIropmo', jaS jImum. </b><span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><i>Because I was ill last year, I taste differently.</i></span>) doesn't really differ that much and works equally well in this situation.</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Iikka "fergusq" Hauhio</div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br></div><div class="protonmail_quote">
------- Original Message -------<br>
On Thursday, April 7th, 2022 at 15.58, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/7/2022 8:35 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">I
want to say "Yesterday, because I was hungry, I ordered a pizza",
and I want to report the event not in the historical present, but
looking back on it.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are two options:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>wa'Hu' jIghungmo', pItSa' vIvun<br>
</div>
<div>wa'Hu' jIghungmo', pItSa' vIvunpu'</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since I'm looking back on the event, the obvious choice must
be {wa'Hu' jIghungmo', pItSa' vIvunpu'}.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But isn't it strange saying "Yesterday, because I am hungry,
I have ordered a pizza"?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is using/combining aspect with no aspect something which we
can do? Or is it that in occasions as the above, the only choice
is to report the event in the historical present?</div>
</blockquote>
<p>It's not strange at all. Yesterday, while a particular state was
in effect, I performed a complete action.</p>
<p>Would you have a problem with <b>wa'Hu' jIloStaHvIS, pItSa'
vIvunpu'?</b> I wouldn't. <b>ghung</b> and <b>loStaH</b> are
equally imperfective.</p>
<p>It would be weird <i>not</i> to include the <b>-pu'</b> on <b>vun,</b>
because <b>wa'Hu' pItSa' vIvun</b> implies that what you're
describing is not a complete action. It asks you to mentally
occupy a moment when the ordering happens but does not express
that the ordering was a complete act. To do this in Klingon's
equivalent of the historical present is fine, because to speak
this way is to mentally occupy moment after moment as they are
described (the way <i>paq'batlh</i> is written). To report the
action after the fact this way would be weird.</p>
<p>(Technically speaking, Klingon does not have a historical
present, because it doesn't have tense. I don't know what to call
it when Klingon does this. Historical imperfective? Narrative
mode? It's not really important; just recognize that it's not
technically historical present.)<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72" class="moz-signature">--
SuStel
<a href="http://trimboli.name" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</blockquote><br>
</div>