<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I’m curious about how one would describe someone washing dishes carelessly enough to not check to make sure they actually are clean when done. They go through the motions of washing them, but it’s hit or miss as to whether or not the dishes are cleaned.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{Say’Ha’moH} implies that the dishes were clean and he made them not clean, un-cleaning them, or miscleaning them. But it’s hit or miss. Some dishes come out clean. Some don’t. {Say’moHbe’} implies not going through the motions of washing.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{Say’moHlaw’} probably comes closest, or {Say’moHchu’be’}. Then again, in English, there isn’t an efficient way of describing this, either. I guess one needs to just describe the action beyond a simple, well-formed verb. {Say’moHlaw’ ‘ach Say’moHchu’be’}.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Other ideas?<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 17, 2021, at 10:08 AM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/17/2021 9:49 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:luis.chaparro@web.de">luis.chaparro@web.de</a> wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:trinity-f39e2e9c-8369-4171-b276-23654b411019-1637160551422@3c-app-webde-bap54" class="">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Thanks again to both of you for the detailed discussion! I will try to summerize it (for beginners like me <span class="moz-smiley-s1" title=":-)"><span class="">:-)</span></span> Please tell me if I'm right:
1. We can use *-moH* or *-choHmoH* depending on wether we want to express or focus on the end result (*-moH*) or the change (*-choHmoH*) someone or something is causing.</pre>
</blockquote><p class="">I wasn't stating a general rule; I was analyzing a specific
sentence. Not all verbs will see a difference between an end
result or a change. For instance, if I say <b class="">tlhIngan Hol
vIghojmoH</b><i class=""> I teach Klingon,</i> I'm not focusing on an end
result; I am just talking about an existing action. If I say <b class="">tlhIngan
Hol vIghojchoHmoH</b> <i class="">I start teaching Klingon,</i> I am
talking about the beginning of an action.</p><p class="">Don't look for a formulaic interpretation of combinations of
suffixes. Analyze each verb as you find it.<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:trinity-f39e2e9c-8369-4171-b276-23654b411019-1637160551422@3c-app-webde-bap54" class="">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> If someone wants to cook and her / his hands are really dirty, I'll probably be interested on emphasize that I want her / his hands to <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>become<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> clean, so I'll likely use *-choHmoH*. If I just recommend someone to be <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>generally<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> clean, I'll likely use *-moH*.</pre>
</blockquote><p class="">Or if you want to recommend someone maintain a regular cleaning
regimen (<b class="">Hoch jaj nuHlIj yISay'moH</b><i class=""> Clean your weapon
every day</i>). Or if you just want to explain how something
becomes clean without describing the transition of going from
dirty to clean (<b class="">raS DaSay'moHmeH, taSvam yIlo'</b><i class=""> Use this
solution to clean the table</i>). There are lots of uses for <b class="">-moH</b>
with or without <b class="">-choH,</b> and you have to figure them out as
needed. Don't try to come up with a simple formula to follow.</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" class="">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br class="">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>