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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/2021 8:05 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJzLkMVE7nFjwX5ZtqZFagsFK8q8eTkueYXtchYpPiFuw@mail.gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">chang'e' DaH Sam Find Chang now!
In this context, I believe the sentence
can be interpreted like so: Chang! Find him now!
That is, it's using the object noun as a topic instead of a focus.
</pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">SuStel:
</pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The parallel sentence in TKD gives us what seems to be a focus interpretation
(HaqwI''e' DaH yISam Find the SURGEON now!), but no context is given, so it's
a little hard to interpret.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I'm afraid you lost me here; the {chang'e' DaH Sam} and {HaqwI''e' DaH
yISam} seem identical with the only difference being that the first
uses clipped klingon.
So, couldn't there be the opposite interpretation as well, i.e. the
{chang'e' DaH Sam} using the focus function of {-'e'}, and the
{HaqwI''e' DaH yISam} using the topic function {-'e'}?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, that's why I said the various functions of <b>-'e'</b> are
closely related, and I think pushing the object out in front of
the adverbial where other non-subject, non-object nouns might go
further blurs the lines.</p>
<p>I agree with JanSIy that Klingons pay more attention to the
context in which <b>-'e'</b> is used more than in trying to
understand arbitrary distinctions in its use. I think fronting an
object with <b>-'e'</b> might be changing its context from
"special object" to "what the whole sentence is about."</p>
<p>Wikipedia article on topic (but note that the word <i>focus</i>
on that page is used in a slightly different way than what we're
talking about here):
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic_and_comment">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic_and_comment</a></p>
<p>Wikipedia article on focus:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_(linguistics)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_(linguistics)</a></p>
<p>Look over the beginning of those two pages, then compare them to
what TKD says about <b>-'e'</b> in various places. You'll see
that the use of <b>-'e'</b> in copulas matches what is said about
topic, while the use of <b>-'e'</b> in subjects and objects
matches what is said about focus.</p>
<p><b>-'e'</b> on a non-subject, non-object noun is not explicitly
addressed in TKD, and we have only one clear example of it, the
one from ST5, and it matches the description of topic, not focus.
The examples in the TKD Addendum of moving the object to before
the adverbial <i>might</i> be an example of this, but this is not
made explicit or denied. When Gorkon shouts <b>chang'e' DaH Sam,</b>
is he saying <i>As for Chang, find him now!</i> or is he saying <i>Find
Chang (not someone else) now!</i> I'm not entirely sure, though
I guess that it's the former. If that's the case, then it may be
that "fronting" the object with <b>-'e'</b> is not just a
syntactic trick, but means you're actually changing the context of
the noun from being an object (where <b>-'e'</b> means focus) to
being a non-subject, non-object noun, where <b>-'e'</b>
apparently means topic.</p>
<p>But we don't KNOW any of this for sure, so I can't give you the
solid answers you both keep asking for. Okrand himself admitted
error in calling <b>-'e'</b> topic in TKD where he uses it as
focus. I think he's not entirely clear on the distinction himself,
or wasn't until Lawrence pointed it out to him. So, in general,
try to use <b>-'e'</b> as focus when putting it on subjects or
objects that aren't head nouns of relative clauses, and try to use
it as topic when putting it on nouns at the end of copulas. For
the weird cases, take your best guess.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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