<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Interesting.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I was seeing {QapDI’} functioning as a time stamp, and as such, like the adverbial, it was one of those things at the beginning of the main clause. The precise sequence isn’t strictly defined. I haven’t noticed examples of other stuff, like time stamps, coming before adverbials, so I was expecting the adverbial to start the sequence, then the time stamp, then the main clause, with everything at the start of the sentence (adverbial and time stamp) applying to the main clause.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m guess {QapDI’ ghaytanHa’ SuvtaH} is valid. It just didn’t occur to me.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, if {ghaytanHa’ QapDI’} is a dependent clause… “Unlikely, when he wins” becomes the time stamp for {SuvtaH}. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And I become confused. It sounds more like “Unlikely, when he wins, he continues fighting.” So, he probably doesn’t continue fighting when he wins. So, I guess he quits fighting when he wins, right?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t really see that as “When he unlikely wins…” and even less as “When he is unlikely to win…” Sorry. I just don’t see that. I could chop it up in a word salad and toss it into the air and pick out that meaning, if I really, really wanted to, but I can’t see it simply meaning that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Let’s drop the {-Ha’} just to make it simpler.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{ghaytan QapDI’} “Likely, when he wins…” is not the same as “When he likely wins…” and I’m pretty sure the the former is the more typical interpretation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I apologize for being dense here. I just don’t get that interpretation. The {-DI’} in combination with the {ghaytanHa’} just confuses me. It seems like it would be so much simpler to say it some other way more clearly.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 16, 2021, at 9:32 AM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/16/2021 9:11 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:89F9325A-2ED7-4778-8B1F-D7ED4DECF81D@mac.com" class="">
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<div class="">To be honest, when I see {ghaytanHa’ QapDI’ SuvtaH},
I read it as “It’s unlikely that he continues fighting when he
wins.” In other words, he fights, then he wins, then he stops
fighting.</div>
</blockquote><p class="">Adverbials generally appear to attach to individual clauses, so I
don't know if this interpretation is possible. That is to say, to
get your meaning, you'd need to say, <b class="">QapDI', ghaytanHa'
SuvtaH.</b> But this touches upon questions of whether Klingon
allows things like parenthetical insertions in the middle of
sentences.<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:89F9325A-2ED7-4778-8B1F-D7ED4DECF81D@mac.com" class="">For your
intended initial meaning, I’d say something more like {Qap’a’?
SaHbe’. SuvtaH.} "Will he win? He doesn’t care. He’s always
fighting."
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Remember that in Klingon, it is unnecessary to pack
too much meaning into one sentence if it can be more clearly
said broken out into multiple sentences, strung together by the
thread of the story; the context shared by all the sentences.</div>
</blockquote>
<br class=""><p class="">Okrand was also somewhat constrained by a verse structure. Unlike
most of <i class="">paq'batlh,</i> the English original and the Klingon
translation don't line up according to stanza in this section,
showing some strain in trying to cover every sense in the
original.</p><p class="">In this case, however, I don't see too much information being
packed in here inappropriately. If I may add some clarifying
punctuation: <b class="">ghaytanHa' QapDI', SuvtaH.</b><i class=""> When it is
unlikely that he will win, he keeps fighting.</i> In other
words, he goes on fighting against the odds. It's all there, and
it's in a fairly simple form already.</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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