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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/27/2021 7:11 PM, Will Martin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A789EB1F-BDEF-4D86-9812-15E11BAFF191@mac.com">
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I think the Klingon means something simpler than what the
“equivalent” English means.</blockquote>
<p>I think the Klingon means something <i>broader</i> than what the
"equivalent" English means.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A789EB1F-BDEF-4D86-9812-15E11BAFF191@mac.com">
<div>So, let’s hone in on the difference I’m trying to point to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>“What weapon do you want?”</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>{nuH yIwIv!}</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The latter never MEANS the former, but the former is
something that Klingon lacks the grammar and vocabulary to say,
so yes, you can translate the latter to the former, but that is
never what it means.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Ahem. "Klingon is not a code for English." <b>nuH yIwIv</b>
doesn't MEAN <i>Choose a weapon! </i>more than it MEANS <i>What
weapon do you want?</i> Both are translations. Both are <i>accurate</i>
translations. One translation may be more suitable in certain
contexts than the other. The art of translation is the art of
transmitting meaning accurately <i>despite</i> changes in
grammar, vocabulary, semantics, context, and tradition.
Translation is NOT about finding words that correspond to the same
words in the other language and fitting them together in the most
similar way as the source language.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A789EB1F-BDEF-4D86-9812-15E11BAFF191@mac.com">
<div>That’s what I mean by recasting.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I know what recasting means.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A789EB1F-BDEF-4D86-9812-15E11BAFF191@mac.com">
<div>What I’m objecting to is the suggestion that analyzing the
grammar of {qalegh je.} you can say that the {je} is pointing to
the subject or to the object. It isn’t.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I'm not saying that <b>je</b> is pointing to the subject or the
object. I'm saying that <b>je</b> is used in a way that compares
a subject to other subjects or an object to other objects.</p>
<p>When you say <b>qaleghpu' je,</b> it follows on from some
previous context. The context might be <i>I saw others,</i> in
which case the <b>je</b> is pointing out that <i>you</i> are an
addition to what I saw. The context might be others saw you, in
which case the <b>je</b> is pointing out that <i>I</i> am an
additional person who saw you.</p>
<p>The <b>je</b> isn't "pointing to" the subject or object in the
way you're implying. It signals the listener that <i>some</i>
part of the context is getting an addition by including this
sentence. You can't tell, without the context, what part of the
sentence is the addition.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A789EB1F-BDEF-4D86-9812-15E11BAFF191@mac.com">
<div>You can set up the understanding in a communication that is
longer than a sentence so that one understands that I, in
addition to others, see you, but the {je} applies to the entire
sentence through the verb, and if you work harder through a unit
of communication larger than a sentence, you can convey that
meaning.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes! The mere use of <b>je</b> implies and requires that the
sentence is in addition to <i>something.</i> That something is
the context.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A789EB1F-BDEF-4D86-9812-15E11BAFF191@mac.com">
<div>I can describe a lightsaber in Klingon, but that doesn’t make
“Lightsaber” part of the Klingon vocabulary (or Universe, for
that matter). I have to work with a larger unit of communication
than a word to convey lightsaber in Klingon. This is like that.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>This is nothing like that.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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