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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/27/2021 9:29 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26AA5777-7FB5-448C-AD91-F6D7DD07BFEA@mac.com">
<div class="">I think you guys have gone overboard with this
thin-ice argument that Klingon adverbials CAN BE TRANSLATED to
apply to things other than either the verb (most commonly), or
in special cases where the context clarifies WTF you are talking
about, nouns.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A simpler truth is that your precious, exceptional
English translations would only make sense if the English
translation had the same context that the Klingon expression
did, and if it HAD that context, you would, like the Klingon
expression, not need the emphasis you are putting on it.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Why are you so angry?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26AA5777-7FB5-448C-AD91-F6D7DD07BFEA@mac.com">
<div class="">I maintain that adverbials apply to verbs or to
whole sentences, and if you want to weight the meaning toward
specific non-verb words in the sentence, you need very special
context, and if you have that context, you don’t need to add
weight to make the English translation mean something other than
what the Klingon sentence actually means, which is either a verb
or whole-sentence application of the adverbial.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Did you miss the bit where I said I was using emphasis for
illustrative purposes only, and that it did NOT represent actual
emphasis in the sentences? The only point to it was to show that
the interpretation of <i>even</i> and <i>almost</i> or <b>vabDot</b>
and <b>tlhoS</b> could change depending on which part of the
sentence was being treated as the independent variable.</p>
<p>Let's look at a canonical example. <b>Qo'noS romuluS je
boSuqlaH. vabDot tera' Qejjbogh DIvI' ram boSuqlaH.</b><i>
Kronos, Romulus, and even the puny Federation's precious Earth
are all up for grabs.</i> (Klingon Monopoly) Look at the <b>vabDot</b>
here. The focus here is to say <i>Kronos, Romulus, and even
Earth!</i> If the <b>vabDot</b> merely modified the verb, the
focus would be <i>VerbX and even acquire!</i> That's clearly not
what's going on here. The <b>vabDot</b> acts on the entire
sentence to make the noun <b>tera'</b> stand out.</p>
<p><b>vabDot</b> is just like <b>je,</b> except for its placement
and the extra connotation of unexpectedness. We are told this
explicitly. Let's take the TKD sentence <b>qaleghpu' je</b><i> I
also saw you, I saw you too.</i> "As in English, the meaning of
such sentences is ambiguous: <i>I and others saw you</i> or <i>I
saw you and others.</i> The exact meaning is determined by
context. Let's replace <b>je</b> with <b>vabDot:</b> <b>vabDot
qaleghpu'</b><i> Even I saw you; I saw even you.</i> Since we
know that <b>vabDot</b> is just <b>je</b> with the extra
connotation of unexpectedness, we should be able to see the same
ambiguity, and we do. Are we focused on the surprise of me <i>(Even
I saw you)</i> or you <i>(I saw even you)</i>? There's an
additional possibility which TKD doesn't address: <b>qaleghpu' je</b><i>
I also saw you (in addition to doing other things to or with
you);</i> <b>vabDot qaleghpu'</b><i> I even saw you (in
addition to doing other things to or with you).</i><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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