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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/25/2021 11:39 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1E869807-8181-4A9F-B1F8-6A6B5E235112@mac.com">
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<div class="">I find {qen cha’ vIghro’ mIllogh vIleghpu’} worthy
of contemplation as I continue to try to improve my
understanding of the difference between tense, which Klingon
lacks, and the perfective, which Klingon has.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Were I writing it, I would have either used {qen} or
{-pu’}, but not both because right now, seeing the picture is a
completed action, and “recently” the action was taking place,
with no significance placed upon the completion of the action of
seeing. The rest of the post follows with either the statement
that I recently saw the pictures, or I have seen the pictures,
but “I recently had seen the pictures” seems unnecessarily
restrictive in terms of setting the time context of what
follows.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You are interpreting the Klingon grammar according to your
English translation, not according to the actual meaning of the
Klingon.</p>
<p>You are using English past perfect tense with the adverb <i>recently.</i>
Past perfective means that, at a point in the past, the state
caused by an action even further back in the past was relevant. <i>Recently
I had seen the pictures:</i> at a point in the recent past, my
act of seeing that was even further in the past was relevant. (vp
is the viewpoint of the sentence, the point at which you are
placing your perspective of the sentence.)</p>
<p><i>Recently I had seen the pictures.</i><br>
</p>
<pre>PAST >-----^----------------RECENTLY---------------NOW--------------------> FUTURE
see vp
</pre>
<p>That's not what <b>qen mIlloghmey vIleghpu'</b> means. Klingon
doesn't have any perfect tenses; it doesn't have an "action in the
past is relevant to the time context" tense. The <b>-pu'</b> is <i>perfective,</i>
not <i>perfect.</i> In general, perfective aspect is used to
express an action as a unit, indivisible in its flow over time. In
Klingon, this is expressed as an action being <i>completed.</i>
From whatever viewpoint the sentence or context sets up, the
action is already done. The viewpoint is <i>not</i> the same as
the time context of the action itself. <b>qen mIlloghmey
vIleghpu'</b> means that at a recent point in the past, I
performed the act of seeing, and I am further expressing my
viewpoint (vp) of that act as from a point when it was already
done.</p>
<p><b>qen mIlloghmey vIleghpu'</b><br>
</p>
<pre>PAST >------------RECENTLY---^---------------------NOW--------------------> FUTURE
<b>legh</b> vp
</pre>
<p>The job of <b>-pu'</b> is not to tell you that a past action is
still relevant (perfect); it is to tell you that you are taking a
viewpoint that looks on an action as completed.</p>
<p><b>tugh mIlloghmey vIleghpu'</b></p>
<pre>PAST >----------------NOW-----------------SOON----^-----------------> FUTURE
<b>legh</b> vp
</pre>
<p>This sentence means <i>Soon I will have seen the pictures,</i>
and it means that seeing the pictures will take place soon, and I
am viewing this action from a point after it's done.</p>
<p>If you fail to use a <b>-pu'</b> or a <b>-taH,</b> then you are
saying that the viewpoint is in the middle of the action.</p>
<p><b>qen mIlloghmey vIlegh</b></p>
<pre>PAST >------------RECENTLY-------------------------NOW--------------------> FUTURE
<b>legh
</b>vp<b>
</b></pre>
<p>This means that you're not viewing the action from a point at
which it's completed; you're expressing the action as it is
occurring.</p>
<p>The difference between this and using <b>-taH</b> is that with <b>-taH</b>
the action continues before and after the viewpoint:</p>
<p><b>qen mIlloghmey vIleghtaH</b></p>
<pre>PAST >------------RECENTLY-------------------------NOW--------------------> FUTURE
<----<b>legh----></b>
vp
</pre>
<p><br>
</p>
<i>Recently I was seeing the pictures.</i> At a recent point in the
past, I had been seeing them, I was still seeing them, and I would
be seeing them for some time after that.<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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