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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/19/2021 7:56 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cKOXMn0fY5ciUeOKLgtNMoSTBe=cymDw+N40nvHcJPECw@mail.gmail.com">I'm
sorry, SuStel, I've to ask again on this matter, and don't
misunderstand me; I'm not trying to find a way to write nested
quotations. In fact, even if I could use them in klingon I
wouldn't, since the whole "he said that she said that they said.."
gives me a feeling of old grannies gossiping in the village.<br>
<br>
But it seems that I've stumbled here on something I ignored, so
I'd like to clarify this further.<br>
<br>
SuStel:<br>
> The real question is whether you can say 'e' yIja' tell that.<br>
> It seems that the answer is no. Whatever you want to report
about is either a noun or a quotation.<br>
jIH:<br>
> I'm afraid I can't understand this; doesn't the {'e'} of a
sao serve as a noun?<br>
SuStel:<br>
> 'e' is a pronoun. It stands in for a sentence, not a noun.
When I said "either a noun or a quotation," I meant exactly that.<br>
<br>
What I was about to ask next, was this:<br>
<br>
Ok, but we *can* write {ghaH vIja'pu'} for "I've told him". Isn't
{ghaH} a pronoun too? So why can't we say too {'e' yIja'}?<br>
<br>
The only explanation which came to mind, was that pronouns such as
{jIH}, {SoH}, {ghaH}, etc can function as nouns too, something
which the {'e'} of a sao can't do. The {jIH}, {SoH}, {ghaH}, etc
are pronouns and can be nouns too, but the {'e'} can only be a
pronoun.</blockquote>
<p>You are mistaking my description of observed canon for a rule.
I'm not saying "the rule is that the object of <b>ja'</b> can be
only a noun or a quotation." I'm saying we've only ever seen
actual nouns or actual quotations as the thing <b>ja'</b> is
referencing, with no sign of the standard sentence-as-object
construction anywhere in sight.</p>
<p>The <i>rule</i> is stated in TKD: "Similarly, with verbs of
saying (<i>say, tell, ask,</i> etc.), <b>'e'</b> and <b>net</b>
are not used. The two phrases simply follow one another, in either
order."</p>
<p>So we have the basic rule, and we haven't seen any exceptions to
the rule. We've seen nouns be the object of <b>ja'</b> and we've
seen <b>ja'</b> work with quotations.</p>
<p><b>neH</b> has a similar rule, but we've seen an exception to it
in <i>Star Trek VI,</i> where Azetbur says <b>'e' neHbe' vavoy.</b>
So I'm not about to state that it's impossible that <b>ja'</b>
can have an exception to it as well. But we haven't seen this
exception so far, so I'm also not about to state that exceptions
occur.</p>
<p>The bottom line: don't use <b>'e'</b> with quotations.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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