<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">In the spirit of Galaxy Quest:”These scenes were badly written!”<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Klingons could have been so much more interesting than this.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">qay’be’.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div>pItlh</div><div><br class=""></div><div>charghwI’ ‘utlh</div><div>(ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 29, 2021, at 12:06 PM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/29/2021 11:40 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2B00A741-B413-44A2-9449-B01B4C0941DA@mac.com" class="">
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Likely {tuq} doesn’t feel right for “bloodline” for you because
“tribe, house, ancestral unit” is not a common cultural concept in
English-speaking or Greek-speaking cultures. In Klingon, it is
probably a more common concept than “bloodline”, in that I
strongly suspect that for a Klingon, your example of "Gawran’s
bloodline" would more likely be expressed as {ghawran tuq} than
anything else. It might include people who married into the family
or who were honorarily adopted into the tribe, but the tribal line
is where the most common boundary tends to be drawn between “us”
and “them” in Klingon culture, and it is defined largely along
lines of descendants, with exceptions.</blockquote><p class="">A quick search of <a href="http://chakoteya.net" class="">chakoteya.net</a> shows that the word <i class="">bloodline</i>
or <i class="">bloodlines </i>is used almost entirely by Klingons. (There
is one reference to Vulcans, one reference to Xindi, one reference
to Menk.) Most of those uses are references to Worf and Kurn being
directly descended from Mogh (and thus being considered traitors)
and Toral being directly descended from Duras (and thus having a
claim to rule the High Council). These are not simply references
to being members of a House; direct descent is required. There is
only one reference to a bloodline as membership in a house, when
Kor says he knows Worf's bloodline and that he comes from a noble
house. And I haven't even looked for references to being a direct
descendant without using the word <i class="">bloodline</i> (like Sirella
says of Shanera). So I think your claim that Klingons think in
terms of houses and not bloodlines is unsupported.<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2B00A741-B413-44A2-9449-B01B4C0941DA@mac.com" class="">
<div class="">The sense is that, while less limited in number, it
probably relates more to the seven Cherokee clans, though that
system is matrilineal, and given the Klingon use of {tuq},
Klingons are likely either more patrilineal or perhaps they
ignore gender and have a merit-lineal system, such that a {tuq}
might be associated with women of merit as much as men. Two
famous sisters come to mind…</div>
</blockquote><p class="">Two famous sisters who were not allowed to lead the House of
Duras in their own names or rule the High Council. They had to
produce a nephew to claim political power behind a puppet.<br class="">
</p><p class="">Klingon society is not only expressly patrilineal, it is overtly
sexist. <a href="http://web.pdx.edu/~wbc/misc/RDM/1-99/ron32.txt" class="">web.pdx.edu/~wbc/misc/RDM/1-99/ron32.txt</a></p><p class="">The only instance I can think of in which a Klingon refers to
anything matrilineal is when Sirella talks about being descended
from Shenara (which turns out not to be true).<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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