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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/23/2021 12:27 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:luis.chaparro@web.de">luis.chaparro@web.de</a> wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:trinity-7bb7b4b2-7d6e-4f53-9cf5-502779301d1d-1624465663876@3c-app-webde-bs52">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">In the last text in Klingon I've posted here I began with this sentence: <DoyIchlanDaq tagha' loQ QaQ muD Dotlh 'ej Hur wItIvlaH. 'ach jImejpa' tlhIngan HolwIj vIqeq vIneH. ghojmeH pov meq motlh luSovlu'bogh. vaj *flamenco* meHghem vIrIch vIneH.> Till this point a Klingon wouldn't interpret it as past, present or future. Then I begin to speak about *flamenco*, so context makes it clear and the Klingon reader understands I'm speaking about "now", right? If I want to make it clearer from the beginning, I can say something like: *DaHjaj DoyIchlanDaq...*</pre>
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<p>I don't see the sentence that introduces the flamenco adds any
time context. The only time context I could possibly piece
together from this is from the word <b>jImejpa',</b> which isn't
<b>jImejpu'pa',</b> so you're not describing something <i>before
I left</i> (a competed act); you're describing something
happening contemporaneous with some viewpoint, possibly <i>before
I leave</i> (an imperfective act, presumably in the future)<i> </i>.
Therefore I probably would not interpret this sentence as being in
the past, but as referring to something that takes place before
you leave in the future. It might be in the present (<i>before I
leave </i>[the leaving is in the future] <i>I want to practice
Klingon</i> [the wanting is in the present])<i> </i>or in the
future (<i>before I leave</i> [the leaving is in the future] <i>I
will want to practice Klingon</i> [the wanting is in the
future]). The former seems more likely to me, so I'd interpret the
whole thing to refer approximately to the present.</p>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">But later I say: <vatlh DIS poH wa'maH Hut *Andalusia*Daq chenpu' *flamenco*, 'ach mungDaj Sovlu'chu'be'. nger law' tu'lu'. meHghemvam luSIghlaw'pu' nugh pIm. wa' nugh potlh 'oHbejpu' *Romani* nugh'e'.> The sentences *'ach mungDaj Sovlu'chu'be'. nger law' tu'lu'* aren't actually clear for someone who has no idea about the actual situation of *flamenco* research: There are or there were many theories?</pre>
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<p>It could be interpreted that way, yes. But the time context is <b>vatlh
DIS poH wa'maH Hut</b><i> the nineteenth century.</i> If the
flamenco was invented in the nineteenth century, then people in
the nineteenth century probably aren't the ones who don't clearly
know its origins and have many theories. You don't say in which
time people have don't know and theories, so all we know is that
it's after the invention of the flamenco.</p>
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cite="mid:trinity-7bb7b4b2-7d6e-4f53-9cf5-502779301d1d-1624465663876@3c-app-webde-bs52">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">However, when you are explaining something and say: *Its origin wasn't known, there were many theories*, the logical thing to do is to add something like: "But today we know it" or "And it's still unknown today". So, since I didn't add anything like this in my Klingon text, the reader is likely to interpret it as present: *Its origin isn't known. There are many theories*. What I'm trying to say is that sometimes context comes from what isn't said rather than from what is actually said, and that what is expected in a particular context should be taken into account.</pre>
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<p>That's true. Context isn't only simple and explicit time
references. It can be reasonable or common assumptions.</p>
<p>Now, Klingons aren't computers, and they don't interpret their
language procedurally. If you try to overspecify your time
contexts, you'll just write an uncouth mess. It's a balancing act
between making things clear and speaking elegantly.</p>
<p>The trick for us is to remember that in translating into Klingon
from other languages, we may lose some time context contained in
the other languages' verbs that we didn't even notice was there.<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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