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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/27/2021 7:21 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:luis.chaparro@web.de">luis.chaparro@web.de</a> wrote:<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">SuStel:
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">You could shorten this even more if you want: DIS 1986 'ewrop DIvI' lochchoHpu' 'eSpanya' Spain became a constituent of the European Union in the year 1986.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">This was my first attempt, but then I was afraid it could be ambiguous (maybe the readers think Spain is no longer a member and they understand the *SepwIjvaD QaQqu' ghu'vam* as imperfective past). Although... maybe it was a little overly cautious, since context (e.g., the fact that I don't make a contrast between Spain being a member in the past and not being a member in the present) should make it clear. Unfortunately, I don't feel confident enough in Klingon yet to assess that accurately.</pre>
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<p>Klingon does not have a distinct imperfective. <b>lochchoHpu'</b>
means <b>loch</b> <i>be a member of,</i> <b>-choH</b><i> change
state (from not a member to a member)</i> and <b>-pu'</b><i>
the action (of changing state) is completed.</i></p>
<p>Klingon also doesn't mark verbs for tense, so <b>lochchoHpu'</b>
might be equally true of the past or future: <i>it became a
constituent of; it will have become a constituent of.</i> Your
time expression <b>(DIS 1986)</b> tells you which it is.<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">2. I was not sure if *loch* only works for mathematics and *yugh* only for chemistry. If it is so, how could I say *be a part / member of* and *consist of* in >>Klingon?
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I think loch works fine here. We are told that loch is used in mathematics, but we aren't told that loch is only used in mathematics.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I assume the same goes for *yugh*, right? </pre>
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<p>Yes, with regards to chemistry. Specifically, Marc Okrand has
used <b>yughmoH</b> to refer to computerized information
filtering.<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">So if you want to say that Spain's member status is good, say QaQ ghu' the situation is good. If you want to say Spain's joining was good, say QaQ wanI'. You can >>also be more specific, saying things like QaQ muvpu'ghach having joined was good or QaQ lochchoHghach becoming a member was good.
Don't use perfective here: the joining being good hasn't ended. The joining has, but the being good hasn't. You can look back on the joining and still see that it >>was good.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Sorry, I didn't explain my question well. Let's say I want to express the joining was at that point in the past good (regardless of its still being good or not) because at that point in the past it solved a specific problem of Spain, and I speak about this problem. I'm only talking about the being good of this event in order to solve that problem in the past. Or to make it clearer: Let's say we speak about the UK. Is *QaQpu'qu'* right in this context? (Or should it be *QaQqu'pu'*?). Thank you!</pre>
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<p>Saying <b>QaQ lochchoHghach</b><i> </i><i>The joining was good</i>
doesn't imply that membership continues to be good. It only refers
to the time of the change of state, the <b>-choH.</b></p>
<p>You can be more specific with a time expression. For instance, <b>'ewrop
DIvI' muvpu'DI' 'eSpanya', QaQ ghu'</b><i> As soon as Spain had
joined the European Union, the situation was good.</i> This
doesn't say anything about the situation now.</p>
<p>You will usually want to avoid perfective markers on verbs
expressing qualities. They're almost never what you're really
trying to express. They do not mean "in the past," and they do not
even necessarily mean "no longer true." <b>QaQpu'</b> means
you're taking the viewpoint of looking back on something, and
saying its goodness is completed. Usually, what you're really
trying to say is that at a certain time, something was good. That
requires no perfective.<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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