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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I agree with SuStel that there’s no reason to assume that {loch} “be a fraction of, make up a portion of, constitute part of” is restricted to math. Remember
that both {chen} “build up, take form, take shape” and {boq} “ally with, form an alliance with“ are also used (along with various suffixes) in math expressions as well as more generally. I’d just like to suggest some other vocabulary (and examples) WRT groups
and members thereof available to play with:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">jeS participate (v)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">(Lieven < MO, 10/19/2016 [qepHom 2016]): The verb {jeS} (participate) does not take an object. It generally is in a phrase following a phrase saying what the
subject of {jeS} is participating in. All of the following can be translated as “I participate in the qepHom”, though the literal meaning of each is distinct:<br>
qaStaHvIS qepHom jIjeS "While the qepHom is happening, I participate"<br>
qaS qepHom ’ej jIjeS "The qepHom is happening, and I participate"<br>
qaS qepHom vaj jIjeS "The qepHom is happening, so I participate"<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> laS veghaS HIltonDaq «Hov leng: yIjeSchu'» qaSchoHmo', bIlopqu'meH HIlton yIghoS
<br>
Come celebrate the grand opening of Star Trek: The Experience at the Las Vegas Hilton. STX<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> tera' vatlh DIS poH cha'maH loS bIyIn jeSlaHpa' Hoch
<br>
Be the first to journey to the 24th century. STX<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> yejvamvaD jeSmeH DIb Dabajbe'pu'.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> You have not earned a seat at this council.<br>
(DSC/Qov "Battle At the Binary Stars" NON-CANON) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">muv join (v)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
Qang QanmeH yan 'ISletlh Damuv 'e' wIvlu'. <br>
You are chosen to serve on the Yan-Isleth and protect the chancellor. MKE<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> may' DaQap, vaj betleH 'obe' Damuv 'e' Daqotlh
<br>
Win battle and earn entrance into the Order of the Bat'leth. MKE<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> Qo'noS tuqmey muvchuqmoH qeylIS
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> Kahless united the tribes of Kronos (PB)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma' DImuv
<br>
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet... (Anthem)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> jolbogh ghom wa'DIch DamuvlaHmeH De' DaneHchugh, Se'vam yIjIHtaH
<br>
Stay tuned for information on how you can be among the first to beam aboard! STX<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">chuD people, kin, member of the same group or tribe or clan (n)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> Qob lIb bam SoH chuDlI' je
<br>
You and your people are in danger. STID<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> DarItmo' vangbej'a' chuDma'?
<br>
Can you be sure our brothers and sisters will answer your call?<br>
(DSC "The Vulcan Hello" NON-CANON)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">vInDa' compatriot, community member, cohort, fellow citizen (n)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> 'ej Dojmey wID - vInDa'ma' peq.
<br>
He has killed many of our people. STID<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">_________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>SuStel<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/26/2021 10:59 AM, <a href="mailto:luis.chaparro@web.de">
luis.chaparro@web.de</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>qen jIjatlhpu’ DoyIchlan Dabbogh 'eSpanya'ngan jIH. DaH loQ SepwIj vIrIch vIneH.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>'ewrop DIvI' loch 'eSpanya', qaStaHvIS DIS 1986 lochchoHpu'. SepwIjvaD QaQqu' ghu'vam, vurchoHlaHpu' 'eSpanya'.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>wa' nugh 'oH 'ewrop'e', 'ach nugh law' yugh. Sepmey tInqu' nganpu'vaD chaq jum ngoDvam. Do'Ha' 'ev chan 'ev mIp law' tIng chan tIng mIp puS. vummeH, ghu'vammo' 'ev chan 'ev lujaH nuv law'. ro' mojchugh ghIt, qabqu' 'ev chan 'ev muD. ghIQmeH, tIng chan tIng lujaH nuv law'. nuvvamvaD roD Daj je tIng chan tIng yIn. boqyIn rur ghu'vam.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>As usual, I would appreciate any help / correction in order to improve my Klingon. I also have three questions:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>1. With *'ewrop DIvI' loch 'eSpanya', qaStaHvIS DIS 1986 lochchoHpu'* I tried to get the meaning of *since*. Is there another way to say it (*since a point in the past till now*)?<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>This is pretty much how I'd do it. You don't need the <b>qaStaHvIS,</b> though: a time expression is enough to say that something happened at a particular time:
<b>DIS 1986 lochchoHpu'</b><i> it became a constituent in the year 1986.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>You could shorten this even more if you want: <b>DIS 1986 'ewrop DIvI' lochchoHpu' 'eSpanya'
</b><i>Spain became a constituent of the European Union in the year 1986.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If you want to emphasize that it is still a member, you could say <b>DIS 1986 'ewrop DIvI' lochchoHpu' 'eSpanya'; DaHjaj lochtaH.
</b><i>Spain became a constituent of the European Union in the year 1986; it remains a constituent today.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>2. I was not sure if *loch* only works for mathematics and *yugh* only for chemistry. If it is so, how could I say *be a part / member of* and *consist of* in Klingon?<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>I think <b>loch</b> works fine here. We are told that <b>loch</b> is used in mathematics, but we aren't told that
<b>loch</b> is <i>only</i> used in mathematics.<o:p></o:p></p>
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