<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Good analysis.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of course, we feel different about our word “weather” than we feel about the term “atmosphere status”, but since Klingon doesn’t have a word for “weather”, maybe they feel exactly the same about the phrase {muD Dotlh} as we feel about our word “weather”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think the real meat you your analysis is that Zeus is not the guy who tells you about the weather, like a meteorologist. Zeus is the guy who can CHANGE the weather. We could list the different things that Zeus can do with the weather, as you suggest, but I’d guess that since Zeus can probably cause lightning, rain, wind, etc. to start, he could also cause them to stop, so even the absence of all the specific kinds of weather we associate with Zeus could be caused by Zeus.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The important thing you’ve pointed out is that Zeus is not one who observes or reports on weather. Zeus causes changes in weather to happen.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div>charghwI’ ‘utlh<br class="">(ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)</div></div>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 25, 2021, at 8:01 AM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/25/2021 7:45 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAP7F2cLK=pbBKqbGywyAKr8midktNdO_N-XPWctVm7ZGW69W5A@mail.gmail.com" class="">(st.klingon
11/1997): <br class="">
> Speakers who do this seem to be aware that they are breaking
the rules, <br class="">
> so they are doing it for rhetorical effect. (It has the same
sort of feeling, perhaps, <br class="">
> as if someone were to say in English … “It's lightninging and
thundering outside…”)<br class="">
<br class="">
What is this "this" which speakers do?<br class="">
</blockquote><p class="">Erroneously think of <b class="">-moH</b> as being part of the verb stem
and saying things like <b class="">quvmoH'egh</b><i class=""> he/she honors
himself/herself.</i> See the transcript here: <a href="http://klingonska.org/canon/1997-11-30-news.txt" class="">klingonska.org/canon/1997-11-30-news.txt</a></p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAP7F2cLK=pbBKqbGywyAKr8midktNdO_N-XPWctVm7ZGW69W5A@mail.gmail.com" class="">However,
I'd like to take this opportunity to say, that one of the things
in Klingon I dislike (and when I say dislike, I mean hate), is
when multiple meanings are shoved on a single word.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If I say {muD Qun ghaH zeus'e'}, then what do I mean? "Zeus
is a god of weather", or "Zeus is a god of the atmosphere"?</div>
</blockquote><p class="">There are two problems here.</p><p class="">First of all, <b class="">muD</b> doesn't mean <i class="">weather.</i> <b class="">muD</b>
means <i class="">atmosphere,</i> and you can talk about <b class="">muD Dotlh</b><i class="">
the status of the atmosphere</i> to refer to what the weather is
doing. We don't have a term for the actual weather in Klingon,
just status of the atmosphere. So I can say things like <b class="">muD
Dotlh HIja'!</b><i class=""> Tell me what the weather is like!</i>
(Literally, <i class="">Tell me the atmosphere's status!</i>), but I
probably wouldn't say things like <b class="">muD Dotlh Qun ghaH Zeus'e'</b><i class="">
Zeus is the god of the atmosphere's status,</i> because what I
WANT to say is that he's the god of the rain and wind and
lightning and clouds all put together, not the god of the weather
report.</p><p class="">Secondly, you MUST accept that languages give multiple meanings
to words. ALL languages do it. I can't demonstrate this in Greek
for you, but it's easy in English: I'll pick a word, say <i class="">high.</i>
<a href="http://Dictionary.com" class="">Dictionary.com</a> lists <i class="">forty</i> distinct senses of the word.
How do you know which sense I mean when I say it? Context. If I
say <i class="">I can jump really high,</i> you know I don't mean <i class="">high
</i>as in sense 16, "rich; extravagant; luxurious" or sense 18,
"remote." Or most of the others. You know what I mean, because
there's only a limited number of those senses that I could apply
to my own jumping.<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAP7F2cLK=pbBKqbGywyAKr8midktNdO_N-XPWctVm7ZGW69W5A@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<div class="">Now, yes, even in natural languages this can happen/happens,
but the tools one has in a natural language (vocabulary +
grammar) give him ways to make things clear. Let alone the fact,
that in natural languages there are so many synonyms for a
number of words. So one can simply choose another word/synonym.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Of course, being on this list for almost 6 years, I
know/expect that someone will say "context will clarify". But I
don't think that a reader is obligated to read an entire
paragraph each time the clarification could easily be made, if
only we hadn't received a billion different meanings for a
single word.</div>
</blockquote><p class="">You don't need to read a whole paragraph to get context. In <i class="">I
jump really high,</i> the context is me jumping. That's enough
context to know which kind of <i class="">high</i> I'm talking about.<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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