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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/2/2021 9:48 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:CAP7F2cKukRWfkvyP6TGM-nPehpZ9RcScmz4EBdLCv2DeLnaXZQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">{tlhIngan Hol vIparHa', 'a black speech
vIparHa'qu'}.
<div dir="auto">"I love black speech more than klingon".</div>
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<p>Why not translate <i>Black Speech</i> as <b>Hol qIj?</b><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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<div dir="auto">"very/more" 'oSbe'bej {-qu'}; laDwI'vaD emphasis
yajmoH mojaqvam 'e' vISov. 'a "emphasis" majatlhtaHvIS,
ghurbogh vay' wIDel, qar'a'?</div>
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<p><b>-qu'</b> is what is known as an <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensifier">intensifier</a>.
<i>Very</i> is just one example of an intensifier; <i>really</i>
is another. See the page I linked for a whole bunch of examples. <i>That
tea is very hot; That tea is ridiculously hot; That tea is
terribly hot; That tea is totally hot; That tea is excessively
hot; That tea is insanely hot </i>— all of these mean<i> </i><b>tujqu'
Darghvetlh.</b></p>
<p><b>-qu'</b> doesn't mean <i>more;</i> that meaning just comes
implicitly from the comparison you made between Klingon and the
Black Speech. I like Klingon, but I really like the Black Speech,
so obviously I like the Black Speech more. The <i>more</i> comes
from the combination of <i>but</i> and <i>really,</i> but it's
not actually stated.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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cite="mid:CAP7F2cKukRWfkvyP6TGM-nPehpZ9RcScmz4EBdLCv2DeLnaXZQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">jIqon: {pIj bISuvvIpchoHba'}; nuq jatlh
mu'tlheghvam?</div>
</blockquote>
<p><i>You obviously often become afraid to fight.</i><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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cite="mid:CAP7F2cKukRWfkvyP6TGM-nPehpZ9RcScmz4EBdLCv2DeLnaXZQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">1. Often you are obviously, afraid to fight.</div>
<div dir="auto">2. Obviously, often you are afraid, to fight.</div>
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<p>What happened to the <i>begin</i> part?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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cite="mid:CAP7F2cKukRWfkvyP6TGM-nPehpZ9RcScmz4EBdLCv2DeLnaXZQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">3. You obviously, often begin, to be afraid to
fight.</div>
<div dir="auto">4. Obviously you begin, that you are often
afraid to fight.</div>
<div dir="auto">5. Obviously you begin to be afraid to often
fight.</div>
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<p>I feel fairly confident that Klingons would consider this to be
splitting hairs. When you've got a real context, the exact meaning
of the sentence will be clear. It doesn't necessarily mean exactly
one or exactly all of these things; it carries all of these
meanings, but the precise interpretation is left to the context to
unlock.</p>
<p>I think this is typical of Klingon grammar. It only gives you
what you need to understand the sentence. It's not as precise as
many other languages. I consider this one of its strengths: if
you're paying attention, you can get across your exact idea while
using only very broad strokes.</p>
<p>Consider the following:</p>
<p><b>DujDaj ra' HoD.</b></p>
<p>A simple, easy to understand sentence, right? Are you sure?</p>
<p><i>A captain commands his (own) ship.<br>
A captain commands her (own) ship.<br>
The captain commands his (own) ship.<br>
The captain commands her (own) ship.<br>
</i><i>A captain commands his (someone else's) ship.<br>
A captain commands her (someone else's) ship.<br>
The captain commands his (someone else's) ship.<br>
The captain commands her (someone else's) ship.<br>
A captain commands his (own) ships.<br>
A captain commands her (own) ships.<br>
The captain commands his (own) ships.<br>
The captain commands her (own) ships.<br>
</i><i>A captain commands his (someone else's) ships.<br>
A captain commands her (someone else's) ships.<br>
The captain commands his (someone else's) ships.<br>
The captain commands her (someone else's) ships.<br>
Captains command his (someone else's) ships.<br>
Captains command her (someone else's) ships.</i><br>
<i><i>The captains command his (someone else's) ships.<br>
The captains command her (someone else's) ships.</i></i></p>
<p>That's a lot of things this sentence could mean! English is more
exacting than Klingon in this way, but give the Klingon sentence a
context, and there's no question what it means.</p>
<p>Vixis has just been promoted to captain and has taken command of
a ship. One of her new subordinates starts questioning her orders.
She shouts at the subordinate, <b>HItlhochQo'! HoD jIH! DujDaj
ra' HoD. qara'DI', bIlobbej. cholobbe'chugh, HIchDalvo' qavo'.</b>
Now there is no question at all exactly what the sentence means.</p>
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<div dir="auto">{cha'logh bIHoSghajqu'choH}
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">mu'tlheghvam mughlu'taHvIS, wej DuH tu'lu':</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">1. Twice you become, very powerful.</div>
<div dir="auto">2. You become very, powerful twice.</div>
<div dir="auto">3. You become powerful, twice the {-qu'}.</div>
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<p><i>You become very powerful, twice.</i> Any further attempt to
plug different bits of the sentence together for specialized
meanings falls under what I called splitting hairs. If you can
provide a context that would make some other combination make
sense, I'd be willing to consider it.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, those times we've seen things like <b>batlh
bIHeghbe'</b><i> You will die without honor,</i> I don't think
this is the rover being applied to the adverbial so much as the
rover being applied to the entire sentence. It's not <b>batlh[-be']
bIHegh<-;<i> </i></b>it's <b>[batlh bIHegh]-be'.</b> It's
simpler than you're trying for.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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