<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I’m going to state the unobvious pleasure of bringing up topics such that, even if I am proved wrong, clarifies the grammar on points that were otherwise not brought up in discussion.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t mind being wrong. It is educational for me, and perhaps for others.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Note that it is not so important that I am not wrong that I defend my ego by ranting onward once challenged.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Were that others more consistently followed my example.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Our shared understanding of the grammar is a higher goal than our strutting on our little stage.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div>charghwI’ ‘utlh</div><div>(ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 10, 2021, at 12:14 PM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/10/2021 11:33 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:6DE48D3D-D457-43F5-9C7A-EC11A13FE9E0@mac.com" class="">
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<div class="">It’s also good to remember that in all of this, any
time we add {-Daq} to a noun, we are talking about the location
where something happens. We are not talking about the location
of a noun independent of any verb, as a sentence fragment.</div>
</blockquote><p class="">Untrue. <b class="">DujDaq</b> means <i class="">ship (as a location)</i> whether
or not something is happening at the ship.</p><p class=""><b class="">naDev</b> means the location known as <i class="">here.</i></p><p class="">Locatives are locatives whether they're in sentences or not.<br class="">
</p><p class="">Would you object to a book or chapter title <b class="">DujmajDaq</b><i class="">
on our ship</i> or <b class="">SermanyuQDaq</b><i class=""> on Sherman's Planet?</i>
I wouldn't: they're perfectly sensible locatives.<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:6DE48D3D-D457-43F5-9C7A-EC11A13FE9E0@mac.com" class="">
<div class="">This goes back to the “cat in the hat” problem.
Klingon doesn’t have a mechanism for using {-Daq} to refer to
the location of a noun, except through the location referring to
the action of a verb.</div>
</blockquote><p class="">The cat-in-the-hat problem is not a problem of referring to the
location of a noun; it's a problem simply of syntax. Nouns with
Type 5 suffixes on them are not allowed to modify other nouns in
the noun-noun construction. There's no <i class="">conceptual</i> reason
why they can't. It's strictly a rule of syntax. <b class="">meHDaq quS</b>
makes perfect sense as <i class="">on-the-bridge chair.</i> It's just not
an allowed syntax.</p><p class="">Your statement isn't even true as a technicality. I can easily
use locatives without using verbs: <b class="">meHDaq 'oH HoD quS'e'</b><i class="">
The captain's chair is on the bridge.</i> No verb there. There's
no difference in syntax between <b class="">meHDaq 'oH HoD quS'e'</b> and
<b class="">vIqraq 'oH HoD quS'e'.</b> Both sentences link the captain's
chair with another noun. The locative has no special verbal
significance.<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:6DE48D3D-D457-43F5-9C7A-EC11A13FE9E0@mac.com" class="">{Dung} is
a noun that can be a subject or an object of a verb. {DungDaq} is
a locative for the action of a verb. Attempts to use {DungDaq} as
a subject or object would indeed be an edge case of grammar,
probably without canon to back it up. It would, at the very least,
be highly uncommon, though in poetry, all bets are off.</blockquote>
<br class=""><p class="">Nonsense. Locatives can be used as the objects of verbs if the
verb imparts a locative sense to its object. <b class="">DungDaq vIjaH</b>
<i class="">I go to the area </i>is a legal, if redundant, sentence, and
the locative is the object of the verb. The locative <i class="">has</i>
to be the object of the verb. If I said <b class="">DungDaq jIjaH,</b> it
would mean I'm in the area above and going somewhere, which is not
what I wanted to say.</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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