<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">If you’ve ever listened to anybody sing this, you get clear emphasis on alternating syllables (using case for emphasis, not for the normal Romanized alphabet):</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">YOHbogh MATLHbogh JE suvWI’</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The poetic rhythm would definitely suffer, were it:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">YOHbogh ‘EJ matlhBOGH SuvWI’</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The two verbs deserve a symmetrical treatment in terms of emphasis, with the verb roots getting the emphasis and the suffixes not emphasized.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As for {SuvwI’}, I’d guess it might be a question of interpretation as to whether to hold the emphatic pattern or break it to emphasize {Suv} as a form of poetic punctuation to end the line. I’d personally prefer:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">YOHbogh MATLHbogh JE SUVwi’</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I could march to that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I say this, stunned by the realization that I’m actually commenting on Klingon poetry as if I had a clue how it worked. This is just a gut feeling with zero authority.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div>charghwI’ ‘utlh</div><div>(ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 8, 2021, at 10:48 AM, Steven Boozer <<a href="mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" class="">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">AFAIK there is one such example but it’s from a song and, as we know, poets sometimes deliberately {pabHa’} (“follow the rules wrongly”) for rhetorical or poetic effect:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI'<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> The blood of battle washes clean<br class=""> the warrior brave and true. (Anthem)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Other examples of two {-bogh}’ed verbs modifying one noun all use {‘ej}:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> romuluSngan Sambogh 'ej HoHbogh nejwI'<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> Romulan hunter-killer probe (KCD)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> The tea that is SuD and light. (KGT)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> quvbogh 'ej valbogh tIqDu' tIQ<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> ancient hearts of honor and wisdom (PB)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">There is also an example of two {-bogh}s referring to the same subject noun, but they appear in different clauses:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach qabDaj 'angbe'bogh<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""> A Klingon who kills without showing his face has no honor. (TKW)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">--<br class="">Voragh,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Ca'Non Master of the Klingons</i><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">_____________________________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>SuStel<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">On 3/8/2021 8:07 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">I know that the usual way of using two -bogh clauses on a noun is by joining them with 'ej:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span>HoHbogh 'ej Qaw'bogh nuH<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span>weapon which kills and destroys<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">But is there any rule which is actually being broken if we wrote the above without the 'ej?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span>HoHbogh Qaw'bogh nuH<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span>weapon which kills which destroys<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Why would writing something like this be wrong?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Since a relative clause is treated grammatically like a noun, doing this breaks no rules. But it's never appeared in canon, and it doesn't appear to be something that Klingons do.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Look at your English translation:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">weapon which kills which destroys.</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>There's no rule in English that disallows that phrase, but it wouldn't be said in English. You'd say<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">weapon which kills and destroys.</i>Your phrase breaks no rule, but it's also not right.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">-- <o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class="">SuStel<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";" class=""><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/trimboli.name__;!!BpyFHLRN4TMTrA!uxzeWaO8rXYJs38Z0V6lIAm1s7A5A9oGjz3LCkkZv7yO1FBCLP7uZqJsSpTKRZrvGrw$" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://trimboli.name</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" class="">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" class="">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>