<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I’ve read from several sources about the difficulty of translating ANY ancient Greek text into ANY other language because of the many subtle emotional nuances that are simply not represented by other languages.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This brings me to the psycholinguistic concept that language shapes one's thoughts (and feelings) as one uses language to express them. Languages tend to evolve to express the ideas and feelings that a people find a need to express through sufficient repetition to develop the vocabulary and grammar to express.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You can’t teach the number 5,384 to a person whose language has only the number words for 1, 2, 3, many. This is like that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Combining these, I’d like to suggest that it might be impossible to create a perfect translation because Klingons, whose feelings are by necessity shaped by their language, may simply fail to have the feelings that someone translating an ancient Greek passage seeks to translate. Those subtle feelings may simply be too alien for a Klingon to understand. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It’s not just that the words aren’t there. The feelings and the ideas aren’t there.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This leaves you with the option that you try to prioritize the subtleties that you wish to express working from the emotional vocabulary of the Klingon language, and perhaps decide between the subtleties that Klingon offers that might have been missing in the original Greek relating to some of the Klingon affixes that get less emphasis in Greek.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A Klingon will never understand all that you wish to express, but he, she, or they might be able to understand the most important point of the passage, so long as that point fits within the emotional expressions his, her, or their language has evolved to hold within its limited boundaries.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div>charghwI’ ‘utlh<br class="">(ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)</div></div>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 7, 2021, at 8:46 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <<a href="mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class="">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">SuStel:</div><div dir="auto" class="">> Since you're signing with the quote in</div><div dir="auto" class="">> Greek, the Klingon translation isn't too</div><div dir="auto" class="">> important to get right, but I thought I'd</div><div dir="auto" class="">> comment anyway. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">I'm glad you took the time to share your thoughts; I always look forward to reading your comments.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">SuStel:</div><div dir="auto" class="">> This seems quite clearly an optative</div><div dir="auto" class="">> sentence. -jaj would be good here. I also</div><div dir="auto" class="">> interpret woe unto you to mean a wish</div><div dir="auto" class="">> that you experience sorrows, not</div><div dir="auto" class="">> necessarily agony (which could</div><div dir="auto" class="">> metaphorically imply sorrows, but it isn't</div><div dir="auto" class="">> restricted to that). So instead of lIloS bep</div><div dir="auto" class="">> agonies await you, I would say Subepjaj</div><div dir="auto" class="">> may you suffer.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Translating the "woe unto you", has been quite a pain for me.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">I can *feel* the old Greek word used in the original text, and I can understand the modern Greek word used in the official translation.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">But (and here's where things get weird), the old Greek word doesn't translate 100% in modern Greek, and none of these two words (old and modern Greek) can be 100% translated in English, let alone Klingon.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Go figure..</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">So I chose the {lIloS bep} because of the context of that sentence..</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">..Which is that Jesus states the fact that the Scribes and Pharisees will eventually experience the agony of those who will not be saved.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">SuStel:</div><div dir="auto" class="">> QaqwI'pu' falsely honorable ones strikes</div><div dir="auto" class="">> me as slightly off the mark for hypocrites</div><div dir="auto" class="">> (it's concerned with honor instead of</div><div dir="auto" class="">> truth), but I can't think of anything better.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Yes, I agree with you 100%. Initially I thought of using {tojwI'pu'} but I didn't *feel* it expressing the "hypocrites". Then I thought of using one of the verbs {lIl}/{ghet}, but none of these verbs are anywhere even close with the context of "hypocrisy" since they're used for role-playing.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">So, for lack of a better alternative, I went with the {QaqwI'pu'}, thinking that the original scribes/pharisees acted the way they did with their main concern being to receive honor they didn't deserve.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">But yes, you're right; I too *feel* that the {QaqwI'pu'} isn't the most accurate word for "hypocrites".</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">~ Dana'an</div><div dir="auto" class="">woe unto you scribes and pharisees hypocrites</div></div>
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