<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I completely disagree about the scope of {latlh qabDaq} in the sentence {latlh qabDaq qul tuj law’ Hoch tuj puS.}<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Look at the superlative part of this sentence. What does it mean? It means, “The fire is hottest.” This is similar to the superlative in {SoH Dun law’ Hoch Dun puS}. “You are the most wonderful.”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Where is the fire hottest? It’s hottest on someone else’s face.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We aren’t saying “[The fire at someone else’s face] is hottest.” We are saying “[The fire is hottest] at someone else’s face.”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We aren’t talking about a bunch of different fires, and the hottest one is at someone else’s face. We are talking about ONE fire, and the place where it is hottest is at someone else’s face.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan<br class=""><br class="">rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.</div>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 11, 2021, at 10:17 AM, De'vID <<a href="mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com" class="">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 at 18:23, Will Martin <<a href="mailto:willmartin2@mac.com" class="">willmartin2@mac.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">In the canon example {qIbDaq SuvwI’’e’ SoH Dun law’ Hoch Dun puS}: </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The suffix {-‘e’} lets you know that everything being said happens with the filter that you are talking about warriors in the galaxy. That is what extends the comparison to both sides of the comparison.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As for warriors in the galaxy, you are the most wonderful. Maybe there are more wonderful warriors somewhere else, but the bounds of this comparison falls within the topic of the whole sentence, which is warriors in the galaxy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is not grammatically similar to {reH latlh qabDaq qul tuj law’ Hoch tuj puS}, since there is no {-‘e’} but I’d argue that it would be normal to interpret the locative to apply to the entire comparison.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Both of those sentences involve the suffix {-Daq}. But also, both {-'e'} and {-Daq} are type-5 noun suffixes. Drop the {SuvwI''e'} from the first sentence and the {reH} from the second and the sentences become grammatically parallel:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{qIbDaq SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS}</div><div class="">{latlh qabDaq qul tuj law' Hoch tuj puS}</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">But in the first sentence, {qIbDaq} applies to the entire comparison. In the second, it appears to apply only to the first half. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">My reasoning is that the normal comparative is dirt simple:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">X [adjectival] law’, Y [adjectival] puS. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The superlative is similar, replacing X or Y with {Hoch}.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">There are extensions of this grammatical construction, but each one of them is a little bit special. The best exceptions are the least special, requiring the least mental stretching to interpret.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The simplest is to preface the entire comparison, as in the two examples considered up to this point:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">[Context for the comparison that would appear at the beginning of a normal sentence] [Comparison].</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Slightly more special would be:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">[Context for the first side of the comparison] [First side of the comparison] [Context for the second side of the comparison] [Second side of the comparison].</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It’s okay to have a sentence that is that second degree of special, but it’s not really so common that it is sufficiently anticipated that if there is no second context given, one would assume that the context applied only to the first half.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The whole point of this discussion is whether or not this is okay. I think it is, but earlier, others have stated that they think it isn't. If you think it's okay, I'm not the one you need to justify this to.</div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">Consider:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{juHlIjDaq SoH Sub law’, juHDajDaq SoH Sub puS.}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You are bolder at your house than you are at his house.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would tentatively accept this as grammatical, but using grammar which is implied by canon examples but never explained. IIUC, others would not accept it and would consider it aberrant grammar.</div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">If I just said:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{juHlIjDaq SoH Sub law’ ghaH Sub puS}.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At your house, you are bolder than he is.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why would you expect this example to mean “You are bolder in your house than he is [perhaps even outside of your house],”? The context of the comparison is “in your house”.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I wouldn't expect it to mean that (without additional context), but I couldn't rule out this meaning (you're bolder in your house than he is in general), either. </div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">There is no reason to anticipate an omitted context for the second half of the comparison. For that, I would have said:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{juHlIjDaq SoH Sub law’ Dat ghaH Sub puS.}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you give one scope, that stretches to the whole comparison. If you give a second scope, then the context has significant meaning for the comparison, because it’s really the two contexts that are being compared.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Does this make sense to you?</div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div>Yes, perfectly. But my point is that the sentence {reH latlh qabDaq qul tuj law' Hoch tuj puS} suggests the scope of the {-Daq} is not necessarily the entire comparison. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Do you not see that the intended meaning of this sentence seems to contradict your analysis? The comparison here is not between just things on someone else's face, it's between something (a fire) on someone else's face and everything else (including outside of someone else's face).<br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">De'vID</div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>