<div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks for the explanation and the other example.<br></div><div>When I start out from the potential answer <b>DevwI' ghaH Qugh'e'</b>, this is a sentence that says something about Kruge. <i>As for Kruge (whom we have been talking about), he is the leader.</i> Kruge (TOP) would be the old information, and <b>DevwI' ghaH</b> would be the new information. But if I remember right, Uhura wasn't asking about a particular Klingon man, but asked the crowd to identify their leader, or for the leader to step forward. In that situation, a logical answer would be <b>Qugh ghaH DevwI''e'</b>. <i>As for our leader, it/he is Kruge</i>, acknowledging that the existence of a leader is a known or assumed fact in Uhura's question. Personally, in her place I would have asked <b>'Iv ghaH DevwI''e'</b>.</div><div><br></div><div>So while I can accept that the question words just replace the expected noun in the answer, that just shifts the problem to there: They were talking about the assumed leader, not about Kruge / that particular Klingon who I think stepped out of the crowd and took off his helmet. In such a situation, I could imagine Kruge being focussed, but not topicalized. <i>Oh, KRUGE, just him, he is the leader.</i></div><div><br></div><div>I think it's similar with the PK sentence about the dish. Wasn't it a human visitor on Kronos, who got served some food, probably points at it and asks what that is? In that case, the old information would be the food (seen or known by both interlocutors), and the new information would be the name of the dish. As for this food, what's it? And the answer would be: <b>roqegh'Iwchab 'oH Sojvetlh'e'</b> (or whatever it was in PK). If the answer was <b>Sojvetlh 'oH roqegh'Iwchab'e'</b> (implied as an expected answer by the question in PK), then this sounds like the question asked would have intended: <i>So, Rokeg Blood Pie, you know... which one of these is it?</i> Such a dialogue makes only sense to me if the talk was about Rokeg Blood Pie even before the food was served... basically with the waiter picking up the topic from before and saying: <i>Remember the Rokeg Blood Pie we talked about before? Well, that's that dish over there!</i> (pointing to it).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Maybe I am overanalyzing this, but the only way I can explain it is that sentences of the type <i><b>X 'oH Y'e'</b></i> are another category and there the <b>-'e'</b> does not necessarily mark topic or focus, but just the subject, which in questions then can be either the question word or the old information about which is asked. If that's true, then would <b>DevwI' ghaH 'Iv'e'</b> and <b>'Iv ghaH DevwI''e'</b> mean exactly the same, and imply the same?</div><div>In this hypothetical case, since their leader is Kruge and Kruge is the only leader, presumably, there would not be a perceived difference. But when asking about cats, then it'd be quite different: <b>Ha'DIbaHmey bIH vIghro'mey'e'</b> = <i>As for cats, they are animals</i>. A logical and correct thing to say. But: <b>vIghro'mey bIH Ha'DIbaHmey'e' </b>= <i>As for animals, they are cats</i>. Without context, this wouldn't be right, as there are many kinds of animals. It could only be understood as asking about a particular group of animals (<i>"<u>the</u> animals"</i>, perhaps pointed at or talked about before).</div><div><br></div><div>— André (aka <i>Vortarulo</i>)<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Fr., 20. Nov. 2020 um 16:29 Uhr schrieb SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>On 11/20/2020 10:26 AM, André Müller
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><i>Discord</i>-Daq <b>«-'e'»</b> mojaq wIrIchtaHvIS
lo'meyDaj vIbuS. qen QIj SuStel 'ej meqqu'mo' ghaH, De'wI'wIjDaq
mojaqvam QIjbogh ghItlh'e' vIpol. 'ach DaH SuStel latlhpu' joq
vIghelnIS.</div>
<div>mu'tlheghDaq <b>«'oH, ghaH, bIH, chaH»</b> lo'lu'chugh
SeSorDaq <b>«-'e'»</b> chelnISlu' net Sov. ghantoH: <b>«Ha'DIbaH
'oH vIghro''e'.»</b> qay'be'. ghellu'chugh jaSHa' chelnISlu'.
ghantoH: <b>«nuq 'oH vIghro''e'?»</b> qay'be' je.</div>
<div>'ach reH mu'tlheghmeyvetlhDaq <u>De' ngo'</u>Daq ngam
mojaqvam, qar'a'? not De' ngo''e' 'oS ghelbogh mu' (<b>«'Iv,
nuq»</b>), qar'a'? vaj tlhIngan Hol pabHa' bIvlaw'
mu'tlheghvam: <b>«Ha'DIbaH 'oH nuq'e'?»</b></div>
<div>'ach <i>«Hov leng: maQmIgh»</i> (STID) HaStamuchDaq Qoy'lu':
<b>«DevwI' ghaH 'Iv'e'?»</b> ‘Who is the leader?’ — vaj latlh
lo' ghaj'a' mojaqvam?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><u>Short version in English:</u><br>
</div>
<div>In <i>be</i>-sentences <b>-'e'</b> marks the subject, which
SuStel explained as one of the TOPIC uses of the suffix. Topic
means that it marks old information, so I concluded logically
that question words like <b>nuq</b> and <b>'Iv</b> cannot be
marked by <b>-'e'</b>. But there is a sentence in STID, <b>«DevwI'
ghaH 'Iv'e'?»</b> ‘Who is the leader?’ Is the usage of <b>-'e'</b>
in <i>be</i>-sentences a different (fourth) usage that is
neither topic, focus, nor head-marking in a relative clause? Or
is it perhaps focus just in this one example after all? Or can
we dismiss it saying that Uhura's Klingon isn't quite perfect
and native-like and she made a mistake here (I believe she said
this sentence)?</div>
</blockquote>
<p>There's also <b>Sojvetlh 'oH nuq'e'</b> in <i>Power Klingon.</i></p>
<p><b>'Iv</b> and <b>nuq</b> are pronouns that stand in for the
answer. If the answer is <b>DevwI' ghaH Qugh'e'</b><i> Kruge is
the leader,</i> then the question of the leader's identity is <b>DevwI'
ghaH 'Iv'e'?</b> Don't worry about the required topic marker in
the question version; it's just there because it's required in the
answer.<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">--
SuStel
<a href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
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