<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Continuing to overthink this… it occurs to me that a student teacher, who teaches in order to learn…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ghojmeH ghojmoH ghojmeH ghojmoHwI’.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The student teacher teaches in order to learn. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m tempted to try to make that “The student teacher teaches in order to learn how to teach”, but it seems like it would require applying a Purpose Clause to another Purpose Clause, which might be a bridge too far for Klingon grammar… unless…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ghojmoHmeH mIw lughojmeH ghojmoH ghojmeH ghojmoHwI’pu’.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Student teachers teach in order to learn a teaching method.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And, of course:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ghojmeH ghojmoHwI’pu’vaD ghojmoHmeH mIw lughojmeH ghojmoH ghojmoHwI’’a'.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The professor teaches the teaching method to the student teachers.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I may have blown a fuse there and gotten lost in the grammar somewhere, but I think I got that right...</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan<br class=""><br class="">rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.</div>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 11, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Will Martin <<a href="mailto:willmartin2@mac.com" class="">willmartin2@mac.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Just to give examples to back up what is said here:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">borghel luHoHmeH puqpu’, ghojmeH tajmey lo’.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The children used boys’ knives to kill the little bird.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{HoH} is giving the purpose of the the verb {lo’}, while {ghoj} is giving the purpose of the noun {taj}. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{HoH} gets a prefix because it forms a clause with a subject and object, like normal Klingon verbs. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{ghoj} doesn’t get a prefix because it is as close to an infinitive as you’ll find in Klingon. It’s controversial whether or not you should call it infinitive because maybe something else is going on that we don’t understand about the grammar yet, but it is common practice to have verbs with {-meH} describe the purpose of a noun without reference to any subject or object. It appears that this is not merely a null prefix. It’s the absence of a prefix. There’s no other place in Klingon grammar where one would justifiably ponder the difference between a present null prefix vs. the absence of a prefix. It’s a unique exception in the language.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Okrand has not described or explained this lack of reference to subjects or objects when a verb with {-meH} is applied to a noun. He has merely shown us examples in canon that can’t be reliably explained any other way.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Again, this is not a rule. It’s just an observation about verbs with {-meH} in canon. A Purpose Clause, complete with subject and/or object can apply to a noun, and it’s possible that a maybe-infinitive verb-with-{-meH} could apply to a verb, but it is common for the maybe-infinitive construction to be applied to nouns, and less common to see it giving the purpose of a verb.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan<br class=""><br class="">rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.</div>
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<div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 11, 2020, at 9:39 AM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/11/2020 9:35 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAP7F2cLJs5VQ8ZgFgvEh4ZVo2x11W0mKZtPQntEftFNM+vXoPg@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="" class="">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">that purpose clauses attached to nouns are infinitive
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">mu'tlheghvam vIyaj; {-meH}'ed nouns boplaw'.
SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="" class="">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">and those attached to verbs are finite.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">nuq 'oH "purpose clause attached to verb"'e' ?</pre>
</blockquote><p class="">Purpose clauses attached to sentences. Verb = sentence in
TKD-speak. "The purpose clause always precedes the noun or verb
whose purpose it is describing."<br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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