<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I’m making no claims about lip movement similarities between the English meaning and {pIrmuS} and {bIS'ub}. I’m saying the lip movements of the two Klingon words are similar to each other, while the sound is remarkably different. Same vowels in the same position in each of two syllables, {p} and {b} are visually indistinguishable and the other differences are not visually obvious.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Two words with tightly related meaning that have very similar lip movements, but very different sounds.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It just struck me as interesting. I’m not suggesting anything profound here.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan<br class=""><br class="">rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.</div>
</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 21, 2020, at 7:39 AM, De'vID <<a href="mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com" class="">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 16:50, Will Martin <<a href="mailto:willmartin2@mac.com" target="_blank" class="">willmartin2@mac.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div class="">It strikes me that {bIS’ub} and {pIrmuS} are words that, like “animal” and {Ha’DIbaH} would be nearly impossible to distinguish between the pair of words by lipreading. </div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don't understand. Are you claiming that {pIrmuS} and {bIS'ub} have the same lip movements as "bottom"?</div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div class="">Given that Okrand’s early work with the Star Trek, even before working on the Klingon language involved coming up with Vulcan words that would lip sync to video shot in English, I wonder…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{pIrmuS} took form as a pun based on Pirimus and Thisby, the play-within-a-play in Shakespeare’s Midsummer Night’s Dream because the inner character Pirimus was played by the outer play’s character named Bottom.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But what does {bIS'ub} come from?</div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Given that Pyramus and Thisbe are a pair who talk to each other through a wall, I am strongly inclined to believe that {bIS'ub} is some kind of transformation on "Thisbe". (The "isb" is basically there in both words. One just has to explain why the initial "th" became a {b}.)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">De'vID</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" class="">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br class="">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>