<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">You start to lose me at {jIHoH’eghmoH} = “I cause someone unspecified to commit suicide.”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This looks like a grammatical error, unless you are trying to say, “I cause myself to kill myself,” which seems like an obvious, unnecessary extension of “I killed myself/I will kill myself/I am killing myself.” Nothing actually causes suicide except for the personal choice to commit the act. An external influence might suggest suicide as a rational choice, but the choice itself is the cause, and the person committing suicide is always the one making that choice.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You could have less confusingly said, {vay’ vIHoH’eghmoH} or perhaps more clearly said, {HoH’eghlu’ ‘e’ vIqaSmoH}.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I really think you are overloading a grammatical construction, when someone speaking the language would have spilled over to a different construction.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That’s what I see as the most common problem when linguists (professional or amateur) start overloading grammatical constructions like this.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you actually wanted to say something, you might have started out parsing something with a particular grammatical form, then realized that it wasn’t working very well and shift to something else, but your interest isn’t in conveying meaning. Your interest is in how much weight a specific grammatical construction can take before it breaks.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My habitual, unwelcome response is, “Yes, this probably breaks it, but even if it didn’t, there are other, far better ways of conveying the meaning you suggest.”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your habitual response is, “I don’t care about conveying the meaning. I’m exploring the limits of the grammar.”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, we go through this, yet again.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And no, honor can’t lack itself. Honor is a trait of living beings. Those beings can have or lack honor, but honor itself can neither have nor lack anything, especially itself.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Honor is like light. A lamp can have light, or it can lack light. Light cannot have light. Light cannot lack light.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Romulans can lack honor, but they cannot cause honor to lack honor.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan<br class=""><br class="">rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.</div>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 18, 2020, at 8:58 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <<a href="mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class="">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">qaStaHvIS QIn tlheghvam, jIHvaD qay'pu' wa': chay' {quv<br class="">luHutlh'eghmoHpu' romuluSngan} mu'tlhegh yajnISlu'. 'op rep ret, vay'<br class="">Daj vIQubpu'. 'ej chaq jIHvaD mu'tlheghvam qay' QIjlaHchu' vay'vam.<br class="">pelaD.<br class=""><br class="">HoH<br class="">kill<br class=""><br class="">HoH'egh<br class="">commit suicide<br class="">(kill oneself)<br class=""><br class="">jIHoH'eghmoH<br class="">I cause someone unspecified to commit suicide<br class="">(I cause someone unspecified to kill himself)<br class=""><br class="">luHoH'eghmoH<br class="">they cause him/her to commit suicide<br class="">(they cause him/her to kill himself/herself)<br class=""><br class="">vaj..<br class=""><br class="">quv luHutlh'eghmoHpu' romuluSngan<br class="">the romulans cause the honor to lack itself<br class=""><br class="">chaq QIjlaw'ghachvam 'oH mu'tlhegh wa'DIch QIjchu'ghach'e'.<br class=""><br class="">~ Qa'yIn<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" class="">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br class="">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>