<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">As usual, you make good points and your analysis is excellent.<br><br><div dir="ltr">The only thing you haven’t addressed is why there doesn’t seem to be an implied {w} in the {o} sound in all the recordings of Okrand pronouncing words like {Qo’noS}, or any other word that includes {o}, unless you’d like to supply what I specifically requested, which is a recording of Okrand pronouncing an {o} in a Klingon word that includes the {w} sound.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">You brought up the example of {gho-} as a syllable that doesn’t follow the {o} with a consonant, and I appreciated that, because I had not thought of that example, so I tried to find a second example and couldn’t come up with one. If there are no other examples, then {gho-} is the only Klingon syllable that ends in {o}, and you did say that maybe the implied {w} in “mow-zaic” only applies to syllables that end in {o}.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">So, no, you didn’t explicitly say that Okrand’s verbal description applied to only {gho-}. You said that maybe it only applies to syllables ending in {o}, and the only example that I know of is {gho-}, so that does logically follow that he’d be giving that description of how {o} is pronounced in {gho-}, while not giving an accurate description of the {o} sound in any other syllable in the vocabulary.<br><div><br></div><div>All we need is a recording of Okrand saying something with a Klingon {o} that sounds like the “mow” in “mosaic”... and maybe something to explain why that doesn’t happen in most of his pronunciation of words that include {o}.</div><div><br></div><div>Sent from my iPad</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:04 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/27/2020 10:48 AM, Will Martin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:AD226912-E950-40B8-AEA3-058F38EDCC70@mac.com">
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It’s odd that he would give a description in TKD that would
accurately apply to syllables ending with {o} and not to the far
more common case of {o} between two consonants.</blockquote>
<p>It wouldn't be odd if Okrand were explaining why <b>ow</b>
doesn't appear at the end of a word instead of explaining <b>o</b>
as a diphthong.</p>
<p>See the original text:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Note that when a vowel is followed by <b>w</b> or <b>y,</b>
the combination of letters may not represent the same sound it
does in English spelling:</p>
<p>[chart: <b>aw, ay, ey, Iy, oy</b>]</p>
<p>Klingon <b>uy</b> resembles <i>ooey</i> in English <i>gooey.</i>
Klingon <b>ew</b> resembles nothing in English, but can be
approximated by running Klingon <b>e</b> and <b>u</b>
together. Likewise, Klingon <b>Iw</b> is <b>I</b> and <b>u</b>
run together. No words in Klingon have <b>ow</b> or <b>uw.</b>
If they did, they would be indistinguishable from words ending
in <b>o</b> and <b>u,</b> respectively.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You see the point here is not so much the character of Klingon
vowels as it is how to read various combinations you'll find in
the book. It doesn't say Klingon <b>o</b> sounds like Klingon <b>ow;</b>
it says Klingon words don't end with <b>ow</b> because it would
sound like the word ends in <b>o.</b> This tells me that Klingon
words that end in <b>o</b> end in a diphthong.</p>
<p>Interestingly, of all the listed diphthongs, only <b>aw, ay, ey,
</b><b>oy,</b> and <b>uy</b> allow a glottal stop after them: <b>aw',
ay', ey', oy', uy'.</b> The combinations <b>ew', Iw', </b>and<b>
Iy'</b> do not occur in any word even though there is no rule
against it.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:AD226912-E950-40B8-AEA3-058F38EDCC70@mac.com">Did he
really give us that description ONLY for the syllable {gho-} and
not give us a description for every other use in the language?
REALLY?</blockquote>
<p>Did I say that? Only the syllable <b>gho?</b> I didn't say that.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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