<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">It sounds like Okrand has done some work to explain how one might express the irrealis in Klingon. I’m ignorant of that explanation. Forgive me, if I’m digging at something that I should just be accepting. I’m honestly trying to understand this mechanism.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If I read {<span class="" style="font-style: normal;">muleghpu' 'avwI' net jalchugh, qab ghu', 'ach…} instead of interpreting it as "</span><span class="">If the guard had seen me, the situation would have been bad, but…”, I’d be more likely to interpret it as “If one imagines that the guard had seen me, the situation (that one is imagining that the guard had seen me) is bad, but…”</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-style: normal;" class=""><span class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="font-style: normal;">In other words, one's imagining that the guard had seen me disturbs me. I disapprove of the event of one imagining this. That event of imagining is a bad situation. I don’t see the leap connecting the bad situation and the imagined event. I see the bad situation being the imagining of that event.</span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="font-style: normal;"><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="font-style: normal;">In other words, if one, today, imagines that yesterday, the guard had seen me, the situation, today, is bad. Yesterday’s situation? It’s fine. The guard didn’t see me.</span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t want to just snipe at what might be a valid expression. I just don’t quite understand how the expression works. I also don’t want to just leave the problem open. I want to try to make a clearer expression, from my limited perspective and the grammatical tools my aging mind remembers.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The way we used to do it was: {muleghpu’be’ ‘avwI’, vaj QaQ ghu’.} "The guard has not seen me, thus the situation is good."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We could also use a rhetorical question, as is common in American Sign Language: {qatlh jIQuch? muleghpu’be’ ‘avwI’.} “Why am I happy? The guard didn’t see me."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If we want to talk about bad situations instead of good ones, {muleghpu’be’mo’ ‘avwI’, ghu’ qab vIjunta’.} "I have evaded a bad situation because the guard has not seen me."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sticking closer to the original suggestion:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">{muleghpu’ ‘avwI’ net jalchugh, ghu’ qab jallu’pu’.} "If one imagines that the guard had seen me, one has imagined a bad situation."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Now, the bad situation is pretty obviously the one that has been imagined. I’m not talking about the event of imagining the situation. I’m talking about the situation that one has imagined.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, enlighten me. What do I have wrong here?</div><br class=""><div class="">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 25, 2020, at 9:08 AM, SuStel <<a href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" class="">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAP7F2cJ0cWUZb--pQoXLc7JjL+Z3-fKRVUuVjJjn2erLmqVf5w@mail.gmail.com" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Assume that there are two klingons speaking, with
regard to a recent romulan incursion. So, one of them asks: "how
did it go ?" And the second wants to reply by saying "it could
have been bad, but luckily..".
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<div dir="auto" class="">I'm wondering.. Could we express this by saying
something like the following ?</div>
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</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">{qablaHpu' ghu' net jal..}</div>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAP7F2cJ0cWUZb--pQoXLc7JjL+Z3-fKRVUuVjJjn2erLmqVf5w@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">The literal translation would be "the situation
has been able to be bad"; but why couldn't we translate this
klingon sentence as in the {net jalchugh} case, thus producing
the meaning: "the situation could be bad" ?</div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">Could we use the {net jal} on its own,
producing a similar irrealis, (or however the @!#@ it's
called), with the {net jalchugh} ?</div>
</div>
</blockquote><p class="">I don't think so. <b class="">net jalchugh</b> sets up the condition for
an irrealis. It's a set phrase. <b class="">net jal</b> only means that
someone is literally imagining something. There's no condition, so
no irrealis, only someone imagining something.<br class="">
</p><p class="">To translate something like this, you might want to establish the
conditions of the irrealis of being bad. <b class="">muleghpu' 'avwI' net
jalchugh, qab ghu', 'ach...</b><i class=""> If the guard had seen me, the
situation would have been bad, but...</i><br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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