<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:03 PM Alan Anderson <<a href="mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net">qunchuy@alcaco.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Someone has already quoted the very end of TKD section 6.2.5.<br>
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> Finally, the use of {rIntaH} to indicate that an action is accomplished (section 4.2.7) is another example of the two-verb (or two-sentence) construction.<br>
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Based on this information, I treat {rIntaH} as its own sentence. I do not place it between another sentence’s verb and its subject.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">paq'batlh, p. 180-181, lines 22-23:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><b>ghIq Qo'noSDaq Qap rIntaH 'e' Sov<br>qeylIS</b><br><i>Then, the time came when Kahless saw<br>That his work on Kronos was done,</i><br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">If <b>rIntaH</b> is its own sentence, then it's what <b>'e'</b> would refer to, and the phrase would be interpreted as:</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><b>ghIq Qo'noSDaq Qap. rIntaH 'e' Sov qeylIS. </b><i>Then he worked on Qo'noS. He knew that it was accomplished.<br></i></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">This doesn't make much sense, because the <b>ghIq</b> clearly is intended to apply to the accomplishment of Kahless's work, not the work itself. Kahless's work on Qo'noS started long before this point in the story, so it doesn't make sense to introduce it with <b>ghIq</b>, "subsequently, then".</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">If <b>rIntaH</b> is a part of the sentence with <b>Qap</b>, then <b>'e'</b> would refer to everything before, and the phrase would be interpreted as:</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><b>ghIq Qo'noSDaq Qap rIntaH. 'e' Sov qeylIS. </b><i>Then he finished working on Qo'noS. Kahless knew that.</i><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><b></b></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">This fits the translation and the context of the sentence.</div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

{qar'a'} is explicitly said to be able to follow the sentence *or* to appear immediately after the verb, and is not mentioned in the section on complex sentences. I won’t extrapolate from it to {rIntaH} (though Andrew Strader obviously did).<br></blockquote><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">I suspect the primary reason {qar'a'} is not mentioned in the section on complex sentences is that it was introduced in the Appendix to TKD, and thus did not exist when the section on complex sentences was written.<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">Like {qar'a'}, {rIntaH} is also explicitly said to follow the verb. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">That is, instead of using the suffix {-ta',} a special verbal construction can <u>follow the verb</u> which indicates the accomplished action.<br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">I know that Okrand's use of terminology in TKD was sometimes imprecise, but I think he could probably tell the difference between "follow the verb" and "follow the sentence".<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">Another piece of circumstantial evidence: In section 6.2.5, there are explicit explanations or glosses pointing out that phrases with<b> 'e'</b>, <b>net</b>, <b>neH</b>, and verbs of saying are considered as two sentences:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">{qama'pu' DIHoH 'e' luSov} <They know we kill prisoners.><br>This sentence is actually two: (1) {qama'pu' DIHoH} <We kill prisoners> ({qama'pu'} <prisoners,> {DIHoH} <we kill them>); (2) {'e' luSov} <They know that> ({'e'} <that,> {luSov} <they know it>). The pronoun {'e'} refers to the previous sentence, <We kill prisoners.><br></div></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">{Dalegh vIneH} <I want you to see him/her.><br>({Dalegh} <you see him/her,> {vIneH} <I want it>)<br></div></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">{qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'}<br>or {HIqaghQo' qaja'pu'} <I told you not to interrupt me.><br>This is literally <I told you, "Don't interrupt me!"> or <"Don't interrupt me" I told you> ({qaja'pu'} <I told you,> {HIqaghQo'} <don't interrupt me!>).<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">This isn't done for <b>rIntaH</b>. The example sentence</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">{luHoH rIntaH} <they have killed him/her> ({HoH} <kill>)</div></blockquote><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">is not followed with an explanation like</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">This is actually two sentences, literally meaning <They killed him/her. It remains finished.><br></div></blockquote><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">further suggesting that despite being a two-verb construction, it's not considered the same sort of thing as <b>'e'</b> and verbs of saying and so on.</span> </div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">Lastly, section 6.2.5 also says</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default">In complex sentences of this type, the second verb never takes an aspect suffix (section 4.2.7).<br></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><b>rIntaH</b> is the second verb, but it's 50% aspect suffix, suggesting that the <b>rIntaH</b> construction is not a complex sentence of that type.<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>