<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/9/2020 11:24 PM, Alan Anderson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B33E396E-A8C8-4A20-B332-688C8BA842FD@alcaco.net">I
believe we have adequate guidance to accept the claim that
“Klingons wouldn’t say that” when the suggested phrasing is
contrary to the ideals of behavior. It doesn’t mean a Klingon
*couldn’t* say it, of course, but it strongly suggests that a
Klingon should say it in a different fashion.</blockquote>
<p>Suppose someone asked how to say <i>It's a beautiful day</i> in
Klingon. A good answer is <b>'IH jaj.</b> A bad answer is that a
Klingon wouldn't say that. But doesn't <i>Power Klingon</i> warn
against saying <i>It's a beautiful day?</i> No. It warns against
starting a business conversation with saying that. But the phrase
is perfectly good when the topic of the conversation actually is
the weather.</p>
<p>Now let's go back to what prompted charghwI' to bring all this up
again. He agreed with my translations, then devoted 887 words to
explaining why the speaker should have said nothing "if the
context was so obvious to everyone that your botched attempt to
make a statement could be interpreted according to your original
intent."</p>
<p>mayqel did offer context to his original request. He was
"remembering one of [his] ex's." He said the sentence he asked
about represented what he was thinking. There is absolutely
nothing here suggesting a context that goes against anything we
canonically know about Klingon culture or its impact on the
language. charghwI''s essay was entirely misplaced.</p>
<p>If someone were to ask how to translate <i>Beautiful day, isn't
it? Can we talk?</i> it would be entirely appropriate to declare
that it's not something a Klingon would say. We know Klingons
don't start conversations this way. If someone were to ask how to
translate <i>Beautiful day, isn't it?</i> OR <i>Can we talk?</i>
it would appropriate to note that Klingons don't start
conversations with those phrases, but it would also be necessary
to explain how to literally translate those phrases, because
independently those phrases can be used specifically to talk about
the things they mention. (A Klingon child has been grumbling
because of the recent bad weather. The child and parent go outside
on a nice day and the parent says <b>'IH jaj, qar'a'?</b>)</p>
<p>It's perfectly fine to use what are told about Klingon culture to
estimate whether and how a Klingon would say something. It's not
fine to force every given context into one of the things we are
told about Klingon culture. Not every utterance is governed by
accuracy, straightforwardness, aggressiveness, and strength, and
few utterances that do touch upon accuracy, straightforwardness,
aggressiveness, and strength have obvious and unquestionable ways
to handle them.</p>
<p>"All Klingons are not alike," says KGT. "[T]here is a great deal
of variation." "Choice of words" and "use (or avoidance) of
certain grammatical constructions" vary in "significant" ways
among Klingons. Let us also remember that <i>Power Klingon</i> is
supposed to be a high-level overview of Klingon culture and
language for the Federation business traveler, not an in-depth
analysis of it. Our ability to apply the lessons of PK are
limited.</p>
<p>So while we can sometimes try to figure out what a Klingon would
or would not say, it is rarely appropriate to rely on cultural
norms to dictate the only response a Klingon would have. It's
halfway to being a No True Scotsman argument.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</body>
</html>