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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/2/2019 10:37 AM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cJnRx5b-tO4_rPczSw1__ww1Kc91PUPQXRF0QVKzdpnmA@mail.gmail.com">SuStel:
<div dir="auto">> As with all noun-noun constructions, it's </div>
<div dir="auto">> the final noun in the series that </div>
<div dir="auto">> determines what "thing" you're talking </div>
<div dir="auto">> about. Here, maH is acting like a noun </div>
<div dir="auto">> and is the final noun. So the phrase ngIq </div>
<div dir="auto">> maH each of us individually is in the first</div>
<div dir="auto">> person.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So, I guess one could say too {Hoch maH} for "all
us".</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So, I could say too {tlhIngan Hol wIparHa' Hoch
maH}, for "we all like klingon".</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Right ?</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Maybe.</p>
<p>But what does <b>Hoch maH</b> actually mean? Sure, the English
translation of <b>Hoch</b> and <b>maH</b> are <i>all</i> and <i>us,</i>
but when you put them together, what do they mean? After all, you
said <i>we all</i> instead of <i>all we.</i><br>
</p>
<p><b>Hoch X</b> means you take the set of X's and consider each one
as separately doing the action. <b>Hoch Xmey/Du'/pu'</b> means
you take the set of X's and consider them as doing the action
collectively.</p>
<p>But what if X is a mass noun? Suppose you say <b>Hoch bIQ.</b>
You're considering each water separately doing the action? You can
say <b>bIQ Hoch</b> to mean the entirety of the water, but that's
got <b>Hoch</b> as the "thing" of the noun-noun construction.</p>
<p>So go back to <b>Hoch maH.</b> Do you take the set of <i>us-es</i>
as each <i>us </i>performing the action? Do you take the set of
all <i>us-es</i> as performing the action collectively? Shouldn't
you instead use <b>maH Hoch</b> <i>the entirety of us,</i> which
is a third-person phrase?</p>
<p>Klingons may or may not say <b>Hoch maH,</b> but you can't
clearly derive it by any grammatical rules we already know. The
individual words translation individually into something we'd say
in English, but that's not how translation really works.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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